Sunday, 11 December 2011

Update...another last word ?

While I'm done with this site it's clear I have a personal bone to pick with a certain poisonous individual with sinister divisive agenda out there on the internet to cause race tension and cause a race war in South Africa.

"Genocide watch" (some random guys website with absolutely no rights or authority to make claims about genocide but yet are held by the extreme right white supremacists as a "bastion of validity") are constantly sourced as a reference to some kind of evidence that genocide was imminent in South Africa. This is mostly the work of Adriana "queen bullshitter of universe" Stuijt who got into the ear of the random sites owner Greg Stanton spreading lies such as the following...

- Over 3000 white farmers have been murdered in South Africa since 1994. (In fact T.A.U (Transvaal Agricultural union says that 1200 people of all races have been murdered on farms since 1992. 33 last year (of all races) which is 50% down since the year before and the lowest ever since 1994.

- She claims she has a list of the over 3000 white farmers names and presents instead a list of around 1160 listings/names, Also many names on the list are non whites, most are not farmers and some were not in any sense of the word murdered. Her list also goes back to 1987 and not 1994. These lies are all proven as lies and linked to at http://www.listconspiracy.blogspot.com

Oh call her out on this and she'll do all sorts of back pedaling "The list isn't complete and has been hacked" an old favourite. Who hacks a list to add more names of people who are not murdered yet removes other names ? And if so why after me pointing it out many times to her are no attemps made to correct her list and claims of what it presents ? BULLSHITTER. She will also offer you a link to another guys (Keith Knots)list which itself is also mostly a list of "attacks, theft and mostly of non whites and far less than half the 3000 "victims" she claims. Afrianna relies on one flimsly trick, that you have a confirmation bias and won't double check her claims or be skeptical and read her "evidence". Because when you do the stench of bullshit is so self evident even the blind would know they walked in a turd. Just take the time to read it before you swallow it. Sarah "maid of Albion" has also informed me in her own passive way that she concedes Adrian's list is a farce. Emails to prove that too if she kicks up a protest. I also have an email from uhuruguru to Adrianna where he calls her out for her blatant distortions.

More on the horid Adrianna..

- She claims there are only 14 000 farmers (individuals) left in South Africa when every other single authority claims there are 40 000 commercial FARMS alone in south Africa and around 200 000 small holdings. How many people live on those ? Very minimum 1 million. 14 000 my peppered ass. To show the absurdity of her claim there are 11 000 maize farms alone in South Africa.

- the list of her other "distortions of the truth" and constant assurances that doomsday is looming are her putting up pictures of people selling used tires next to the road and claiming they are preparing to set them alight to prevent white flight from cities, that Military vehicles were flowing into south Africa sourcing a photo of a 20 year old military vehicle and literally countless other non events and baseless rubbish.

Anyway the crow has been going on a lot about genocide watch and their escalation of South Africa. Stanton of genocide watch confided in me that he had been manipulated by her and promised to be more critical of the "news" she sent him in future. This email he sent me last night.

Dear Mr ********

Thank you for your feedback.

The plan is to decrease the risk level to five. It will take a week or two to write our rationale and change our map. You have provided good reasons and we were happy that Malema has been disciplined by the ANC. Unfortunately, we still think Malema has a large following among unemployed youth, and he could make a comeback. So we are keeping a watchful eye on the level of risk.

Greg Stanton


Suck it Adrianna ! Another big victory for rationality over neurotic fear mongering. There's no denying farm murders do happen and as with any murder 1 is too many (especially considering there's nothing more important to a countyr that food security), but none of that is really your genuine concern now is it ? It's all very histionic and insincere.

And the usual disclaimer : 1 farm murder is too many !!! Do all you can to support the heart and soul of our country who are our farmers and their right to safety and security, but don't cry wolf, and callously use their suffering to push your foul agenda to cause racial tensions which will only logically lead to more race related crime in this complicated country.

I wonder how many farm murders have been the direct cause of the type of dehumanising rhetoric spewed by the extreme right white supremacists of Adriana's ilk. ?Through their writings or actions ? How many black people have stumbled upon sites like http://www.mspoliticalcommentary.blogspot .com and thought "Fuck these white people ! Who cares that happens to them ?"

Think about it. Cause and effect. You don't like it find another universe because in this one it remains pretty damn inevitable.

Oh for the lighter side of me I've started a blog now that this one is finished. for now just some old posts up there from my other site but as I get down with wordpress I'm going to include daily updates, weekly movie, computer game and music reviews, weekly articles, a weekly rant and true stories from my travels and debauched previous life. Oh and I consider myself retired from this tit for tat race political crap now so please don't drag that onto my new blog.

http://www.themcfearless.com/

Update on the update : This from Gegory stanton after I thanked him and asked him to continue to treat everything Adriana says with skepticism.

Dear ********

It will take until next week for my technical wizards who run our website to make the change, which we will explain as well.

I appreciate your skepticism about Adriana Stuijt. We always check her claims because we do agree with you about her racist attitudes.

I must ask, though, if you think that level five is too high, isn't there a lot of polarization in South Africa compared to ten years ago, especially among alienated African unemployed youth? We don't claim that our risk model is linear, in any case, since there is little evidence that hate groups have organized to a significant degree (level four). What has worried us was that the ANC Youth League was becoming such an organization. Now that Julius Malema has been removed as its President, that risk seems to have diminished.

Thank you for you comments and your help.

Best wishes,

Greg Stanton

165 comments:

Dachshund said...

It's always so-called Boers who are now expat who stir up racist shit. Even if they were not even Boers to start with, as is the case of Adriana Stuijt. Dutch born Stuijt was twice married to and divorced from the late Robert van Tonder who was a big fan of a Boer republic. You would think that someone's ex-wife - not widow - would cease carrying the candle for him after all this time. I suspect she thinks it's cool when Afrikaners are murdered, by whoever, or however. It's sheer spite.

Anonymous said...

What would anyone gain by "lying" about genocide? You argue that things are just dandy in this country. You don't read the papers do you? Good luck buddy.

The Rooster said...

What would anyone gain by "lying" about genocide?

___________________

Don't put lying in inverted commas as if it's something suggested or implied but not entirely true. She HAS WITH ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT knowingly lied and I've shown and proven that without any ambiguity.
Read

www.listconspiracy.blogspot.com


What has she got to gain ? What's her motive ? Baffles the non sociopath mind doesn't it ? Sometimes something is so sinister or repulsive that the human mind just rejects it.

In her case it's partly the need, the urge, the wish, the burning desire for South Africa to have a race war or at the very least be proven a failed state under black government. She'd go t5o any extreme for the world to believe that as she has shown. She'll smear snake oil into your eyes if she needs to.

for example ask yourself this...when it was announced that Julius Malema was banned or that the murder of farmers was the lowest ever since 1994 last year what do you think her reaction was ?

was she glad or dissapointed (angry even) that things hadn't gotten worse ? If you known anything about human nature and what drives people the answer would be clear to you. Adriana thrives, jumps for joy when bad things happen here , and feels hollow inside when they don't.

Shadenfreude of the highest order.

The Rooster said...

I suspect she thinks it's cool when Afrikaners are murdered, by whoever, or however. It's sheer spite.

_________________

Actually you're more right than you think. Subconsciously do you think Adriana's week starts off better or worse when she reads of an Afrikaner murder ? I bet she gets quite depressed and moody if she doesn't then she has to make up shit about tires and invading armies and pamphlets being sent around and secret training camps and other such baseless shit.

The Rooster said...

At least I can say for myself when I read of a farm murder (of the stereotypical type adriana and the media will to pains to talk about)my reaction is genuinely and non histrionically "Fuck man, what fucking savage did that ?! I hope they catch the bastards and hang them !"

At least I've invested in the hope this type of shit stops and don't fuel the fire like the extreme right white supremacists do. I'm polite and respectful to everyone I meet. Why ? Hate bounces !

Anonymous said...

Hey ASSHAT,you sure do speak a klomp kak.Im watching you.We gonna all settle this some day soon.Till then heres hoping mikes site gains traction in international circles.

Boere-Mafia.Z.A.R

Anonymous said...

Now that you've evolved to acknowledging farm murders, perhaps you should take up your other pet denial. See below.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/kwazulu-natal/dog-found-carrying-dead-baby-1.1191090

Dog found carrying dead baby

December 2 2011 at 11:08am

A woman was arrested after a dog was found carrying the body of her baby near Umtentweni in KwaZulu-Natal, police said on Friday.

Lieutenant-Colonel Zandra Wiid said local residents called the police after they saw the dog carrying the headless and armless body in its mouth on Wednesday afternoon.

Police were led to a house where a woman had recently had a baby, but it had not been seen in the past few weeks.

Wiid said the 29-year-old woman was arrested and charged with murder.

Police were investigating what had happened to the baby's arms and head. – Sapa

The Rooster said...

Hey ASSHAT,you sure do speak a klomp kak.I'm watching you.

____________________

Show me one thing I'm wrong about. Watching me ? Pervert.

_________________

We gonna all settle this some day soon.
____________________

Been at the booze huh ?

__________________

Till then heres hoping mikes site gains traction in international circles

__________________

Yes the international world just loves white supremacists. Flavour of the day. Everyone will run to support such a noble cause.

Bwahahahahahahahahaha

The Rooster said...

Now that you've evolved to acknowledging farm murders, perhaps you should take up your other pet denial. See below.


___________________

With all the due respect coming to someone making a moronic claims, what the fuck are you talking about ? When have I ever denied farm murders ?

The Rooster said...

Put the dead baby carried with a god story on your mantle piece yet ? You seem so self pleased about it.

I hope you never engage in any process resembling self reflection because you will find yourself in quite a dark existential crisis.

Look at the shadow and the shadow looks back.

The Rooster said...

Tell you what. Take a moderate dose of LSD and then reflect upon who you are as a person from an objective perspective.

I shudder at the thought. If and when you come out of the catatonic state of existential terror at what a lothsome bieng you have become to so dehumanise another sentient being you will be cured. Forever. It won't be nice, but it will give you a hell of well needed smack in the right direction towards being a slf actualised human being.

The Rooster said...

Talking from experience. I couldn't talk for a week after my first introspective session with lsd. I could not believe what a selfish, self serving, shallow and hollow being I WAS (and I was the sweetest person you could ever meet at the time.)

Now magine what the drug would do to someone who takes glee in dead black babies being eaten by dogs ?

*shudder
That was when I was a liberal by the way.

Anonymous said...

Thank God this pathetic site exists so that 1 or 2 ignorant idiots can talk to one another and themselves under anonymous tags to try and give this pile of crap some credence.

Please do the blogging community a favour and keep this shithole going so that you can all lurk here in your blindness and continue to delude yourselves as you slowly wither away to your graves.
May it be a slow, painful and miserable journey
Names like Dachshund and Rooster clearly identify the level of your imagination.

Race realists are very pleased they escaped from this level of stupidity and backwardness when they graduated from the so called enlightened liberal English SA universities.

Yuk!
You fools really want to make me want to puke
May this blog last forever as a permanent geriatric home for you clots to reside in.

Dachshund said...

I wouldn't know about LSD being good for self analysis. I smoked dagga just once and had such a bad experience it put me off for life. Never really tried shrooms either. Self analysis can be like peeling an onion, you wind up with nothing left after you've removed all the layers. Try to act like a human being, that's all.

Anonymous said...

Hey ASSHAT,have you ever been quoted on time live?Or anywhere for that matter,other than on your excuse for a cause right here?

What you mean the world will surely support supremacists with noble causes?
For your imformation the western world are the biggest facists.America & uk loot the 3rd worlds gold, diamonds and oil daily.Is this not an imperialist,Racist, mentality?
How noble of them...Must be ensuring democracy reigns in those countries...I get it!(Ignorant me)

Your democracy you so love in south africa will see its gat just like our apartheid.There comes a time in business when most have to cut their losses....Business is all about taking risks...If they fail and cost you too much you discontinue them.
In case you didnt know the brits/yanks & others are in afghanistan as we speak For what?Because theyre nice guys?

Do you recall in the 80's when the yanks were supporting the national party? wonder why???

You are a delusional fool ,you need to remember ,the wheel turns,These greedy liberal capitalists will support ANY system if it furthers their cause and as you will no doubt have seen in the recent past ,Neo liberal standpoints/opinions in europe have not been good for the economy.



Been drinking hey.?
Dont touch the shit,sorry!

Dachshund said...

This Boere-Mafia trash is just another dumb asshole who became all bewildered and flustered when he found out that only professional education gets you somewhere, not a big mouth and fists to match, even if your skin happens to be white. Dumb does as dumb is.

Anonymous said...

Rooster must take the prize for the LOUDEST SHOUTER EVERYBODY ELSE FUCK OFF YOU STUPID CUNTS I'M CLEVERER THAN YOU PLUS I'M RIGHT SO BUKKAKE YOU ARE ALL CUNTPLASM SHUT UP SHUT UP UP JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY!!!!
internet award....Oh, and by the way, peace and love to you all....

The Rooster said...

At anon rant above, why are you fighting with me about global agendas and new world orders ? I'm savvy to all that. But what the hell has any of that got to do with people making alarmist statements, fear mongering and plain making shit up about South Africa ?

I get why you attach "liberal" to it. Yes, liberlism is a tool that is being used to disenfrachise white males and push self aggrandisment for just about every other group and the two things are possibly releated. But that's unrelated to the South African context where things, as you should know, have far more variables at play.

Coming back to global agenda's. Do you think that

a) It benefits white's in South Africa to present us internationally on the internet as a racist, intolerant, prejudices bunch of violent, insulting douchgebags ? (iluvsa, mspolitcal commentary, uhuru guru) ?

b) Do you think it helps when certain groups of us make websites to act like us whites are the victims when we are by far (FAR!) the least affected by violent crime ? Where on average less than one of the 40 murders a day happens to a white person (280 a year....250 males (13 per 100 000) and 30(2.4 per 100 000) females out of 16000+ despite being 10 percent of the population)? Also in a country where there is close to 35% unemployment whites only have 4% unemployment (less than New Zealand)and are by far the richest group of people in a country.

Given those facts I've linked to so often what is behind the thinking of someone who wants to tell white South Africans they are the REAL victims in this country instead of appreciating their relative priveledge ?

I'll tell you...to create racial tensions, to push for a race war or at least a violent outburst from a white minority group..not for the benefit but to the detriment of white people. Because the moment this happens the A.N.C will have all the validation in the world to radicalise it's racial policy.

So to sum up...if you care about white South African tell the Adriana stiujts of the world to shut the fuck up.

The Rooster said...

*unless of course they want to use REAL facts...

If she could just stick to the rare but real brutal farm murders that seem racially motivated and help people understand the context she would be doing something good for whites. But everyday I hear embittered farmers with poisened minds talking about how much they hate blacks because of fallacies like "boer genocide" and I see in their actions towards blacks how the situation os perpetuated.

The people in power (fuck politics, it's still whites in South Africa because we control the economy) with the historic history of abuse are the ones who need to make the moves towards reconcilliation. You can't expect it from the ones who were fucked over and are suffering. That's reality.


Unless of course you don't want reconciliation and peace. But then you're just another person pushing for a race war, in whih case you put me and my loved ones in danger. So fuck you very much.

The Rooster said...

Rooster must take the prize for the LOUDEST SHOUTER EVERYBODY ELSE FUCK OFF YOU STUPID CUNTS I'M CLEVERER THAN YOU PLUS I'M RIGHT SO BUKKAKE YOU ARE ALL CUNTPLASM SHUT UP SHUT UP UP JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY!!!!
internet award....Oh, and by the way, peace and love to you all....


__________________


Ah shucks, thanks.

The Rooster said...

May this blog last forever as a permanent geriatric home for you clots to reside in.


____________________


Bwahahahahahahaha !

The irony ! Show me a poster on the "exreme right" blogs who are under 50.

____________________

Names like Rooster clearly identify the level of your imagination.

______________________

Says anonymous....


Bwahahahahahahaha !

Dachshund said...

Geriatric? The blogger with the pumpkin face - you know, the one I said I wouldn't refer to by name anymore on this blog - is well into his fifties. No qualifications and "self employed" in the UK at that age. Wouldn't be my cup of tea, that kind of situation. If you're still pissed off about the Boer War it must be hell being old, white and unwanted among all those poms.

Observer said...

1. Re Adriana Stuijt inaccuracies - would you advise a complete shut-down of her website due to her farm murder statistics? Remember that will be one website less of the already few opposing English South African voices on the web. Then you will give the government a free hand if there are no watchdogs anymore. And make no mistake, the website is being read worldwide by inquisitive people who want to know a bit more beyond the rainbow nation part of it.

The exact farm murder figure, including by race, should have been maintained by the authorities, not by private individuals with their limited resources. Why has this not been done - do the authorities want to hide something? The suspicion remains that there is a big cover up.

2. Two websites the future cause of a race war - many articles comment on events reported in other media and worse, also on events under reported or distorted by the media. I have difficulties swallowing that two websites have the potential to cause race war. In that case the race relations must be pretty much over the edge for two websites to tipple this balance. What about Afrikaans websites like PRAAG, the AWB, the HNP, Afrikanervolksparty, FF+ newsletters, Solidarity, Afriforum, even what the opposition sometimes says in parliament - what weight would you attach to them in creating a race war? Accusing them of causing a race war is a big thing - you talk of a revolution here.

If you could provide some stats about how many whites and blacks in South Africa read these website, one could obtain a better overall picture of its contribution toward a race war. Before that I say the exposure to these websites are restricted to a smaller intellectual audience.

In the opposite corner you have many blacks who make pretty dangerous statements in the other direction - kill white babies, kill whites, etc. even that has not precipitated a race war yet, although it creates tension in some quarters, i.e. the cognitive elite is trickling out of this country.

3. Whites controlling the economy - but at an ever increasing price (feed the crocodile to keep it happy) with a corresponding impoverishment across many areas in the economy. that is, robbing Peter in order to pay Paul.

4. Whites less affected by violence. The point is not that they are less affected, the point is that in comparison to when the Group Areas Act was still in place they are experiencing an unprecedented rate of crime.

5. Named websites presenting us as racists. This is one view. There are also voices that commented that now for the first time they became aware of what is happening behind the rainbow nation facade. I have not yet seen negative comments about these websites from overseas people, to the contrary I have experienced that these people are glad that there exists websites which look behind the curtains of the Rainbow nation.

Those that see these websites as racist (and I do not know of such people, please correct me if there are) are most probably the advocates of race egalitarianism. These ideologist want to flood the West with a race concoction that will destroy the West. The antidote to this is to create a strong race consciousness. This benefits South African whites to create a strong identity. It does not benefit South Africa for the purpose of pandering to the egalitarians, but that most probably is not the point of the exercise. You can either stand up to you adversary, or you can pander to his whims. You cannot just sit on the fence and be neutral and go with the flow in order to effect change.

6. Named websites are creating race tension toward a race war. You could also see it from another angle - exposing racist actions against whites and uncovering corruption. The watchdog angle. Must one throw out the baby with the bathwater?

Observer said...

7. Dr. Stanton's Genocide website, and no authority (in your opinion, who would constitute an authority? ). If I look at the list of names on that website, it certainly does not look like a bunch of amateurs to me. As to presuppose it was Adriana Stuijt who fed him with statistics - lets leave this as an assumption until proven otherwise.

8. Dr. Stanton decreasing the risk level. But that is fantastic. Hopefully unofficial watchdogs like Adriana's website and mspoliticalcommentary have contributes their part toward this good news by putting pressure on this government to get its act in order. The more watchdogs the merrier.

9. Show me a poster on the "extreme right" blogs who are under 50.

There will be less because the weight of the experience lies with the older bloggers, for they lived through the old South Africa and thus can compare the two states before and after, which younger people are not able to do. If they are right-wing, and not moderate nor left-wing, then for a reason.

One of the reasons will be that they experienced the old South Africa more positive than the new South Africa. The younger generation is not able to make that distinction, they think that much of the state of affairs is normal, whereas in fact in the past it was not normal.

The Rooster said...

Please read up to see the question I am responding to.

Hi "observer"

1) Yes, her site is hardmful to relationships between ethnic groups in South Africa. She readily perpetuates fear through deliberate lies, hyperbole and distortions.

Examples are too numerous to mention. Putting up photos of people selling second hand tyres and stating "people ready to necklace white people" or an old photo of an old army vehicle and then stating " Hundreds of military vehicles spotted suspiciously crossing into South Africa from the Zimbabwe border" and other such complete rubbish that always turns out to be bollocks etc.

This type of crying wolf hurts the far rights credibility more than it helps anything.

Her list is a farce ...I don't see anyone arguing with me about that anymore. I think there's nothing left to prove from my side there. And she knows it is a farce and has never made any corrections.


Should she be allowed to put across her dangerous , race war baiting , devisive lies under the guise of free speach ?

You decide. I personally think your freedom of speach is only valid if it's not trying to hinder the freedoms of others or cause harm. Which she clearly proposes in her agenda.

The Rooster said...

2) Afriforum state there have been around 1200 farm murders of all races since around 1992. I don't disagree with them or think they're trying to cause a race war. A boer state maybe but I'll laugh that off until I see a proposed boer state map that is proportional to their representation in society.

And where are all these blacks that say "kill white babies ?"

Oh yes, adriana's facebook screen caps of whites acting as blacks saying offensive on facebook ?

About as sophisticated as sticking out your tongue and pulling your ears as rabble rousing goes.

The Rooster said...

3) Listen closely. The economy has never been in better shape until the world wide recession. The average South African household of all races earns almost double (inflation related ) to what they did before the "new South Africa". All this talk of our suffering economy is objectively plain wrong. These things are falsifiable and your sentiments and feeling don't matter a damn. The numbers just show that our economy never grew more or faster than the post 2000 boom years.

The Rooster said...

4) Valid point. I concede that whites compared to before (during apartheid) are more exposed to crime. The reasons are obvious. But we both can agree whites experience by far the lowest levels of violent crime. White on white crime in Eastern Europe is at far higher levels than black on white crime in South Africa for example.

The Rooster said...

5) Agreed. Again there's a difference between standing up for your rights and nostalgia for things to return to a state when you abused the rights of others. Can we agree on that ?

The Rooster said...

7) I don't know who has authority. But anyone who says S.A is at the second highest genocide risk because of Julius Malema (and admitted he does not know who malema is to the extent that he wrote to me that malema is 50 years old) is clearly no expert on our political situation.

The Rooster said...

8) You think Adriana will be happy to see less black on white violence or none at all ? That would destroy everything she lives for and believes in.

The Rooster said...

9

Ah but isn't that always a trait of humans of a certain age ? To glorify the past with distorted nostalgia of their youth ?

I mean they pretend like black people had life better under apartheid than now. And ABSURD statement for example. The type of thing difficult to understand other than to assume confirmation bias.

Anonymous said...

Rooster said apropos schadenfreude:

"jumps for joy when bad things happen here , and feels hollow inside when they don't. Shadenfreude of the highest order."

Just like you did when Breivik blew 70 + innocents to death...Go over your endless comments from that period on your own blog..One could almost sense the lump of schadenfreude tightening in your solar plexis...Expressing such moral outrage against the SA right wing, such superiority and "I TOLD YOU SO", in fact JOY...Go back and read it again carefully you hypocritical cunt....

Anonymous said...

"Oh for the lighter side of me I've started a blog now that this one is finished."

A lot of stuff there looks plagiarised, (not that the content rising much above mediocre) it's just not as many spelling mistakes there as we are used to on S.U.W....It looks much like copy/paste jobs, but nice try anyway....

The Rooster said...

A lot of stuff there looks plagiarised, (not that the content rising much above mediocre) it's just not as many spelling mistakes there as we are used to on S.U.W....It looks much like copy/paste jobs, but nice try anyway....


_____________________


Well it is copy and pasted....from my old blog www.fingerandthumb.blogspot.com and I did clean up the spelling errors upon re posting.

I plan to start with NEW content twice a week on that site (www.themcfearless.com) once I worked out the worpress content management and archiving system. Already written a few just posting the old before the fresh.


But thanks for the unintended compliment that the content rises above average and you think it's good enough I would plagiarise it. I bet you caught yourself giggling once or twice.

The Rooster said...

Just like you did when Breivik blew 70 + innocents to death...Go over your endless comments from that period on your own blog..One could almost sense the lump of schadenfreude tightening in your solar plexis...Expressing such moral outrage against the SA right wing, such superiority and "I TOLD YOU SO", in fact JOY...Go back and read it again carefully you hypocritical cunt....
__________________________

So I spent over 500 posts warning against the obvious logical conclusion of what the extreme right is proposing and tragically a horrible example plays out.....and I wanted it to happen ?

What massive projection on your part !

Dachshund said...

As a person old enough to have lived in apartheid and post-apartheid South Africa, I can tell you that relationships between blacks and whites are improving by the day. I only wish the disaster of apartheid had never happened in the first place. At the same time, I think there should be a sunset clause for affirmative action. Too many talented white people are leaving the country because of AA. It happens time and time again. We should all get over ourselves by now and learn to live in peace so that we can all benefit from living in this terrific place.

Anonymous said...

The people are being tortured and then murdered. Don't look away from 26,000 murders a year. 40% unemployment. They often come from Mozambique and Zimbabwe where unemployment is 80%+ and then they murder and kill white farmers who they image do not deserve to be on the farms. Don't lie to yourself.

The Rooster said...

The people are being tortured and then murdered. Don't look away from 26,000 murders a year. 40% unemployment. They often come from Mozambique and Zimbabwe where unemployment is 80%+ and then they murder and kill white farmers who they image do not deserve to be on the farms. Don't lie to yourself.

______________________

You start off by claiming we have 26 000 murders a year here and then lecture me on not lying to myself ? Go check your facts buddy.

The Rooster said...

As a person old enough to have lived in apartheid and post-apartheid South Africa, I can tell you that relationships between blacks and whites are improving by the day. I only wish the disaster of apartheid had never happened in the first place. At the same time, I think there should be a sunset clause for affirmative action.

__________________


Actually that's mostly rubbish. Firstly most that leave come back , currently more come back that leave according to home affairs. Secondly the people who are leaving are indeed often highly skilled indeed, but then highly skilled people from all developing and under developed countries have always migrated to first world countries for the better money. This has nothing to do with AA.


In fact the same people who say people are leaving because of AA often say in the very next fucking sentence "so now we have a skills shortage". Listen morons the two things can't be true at the same time. It can't be hard to find a job in S.A as a skilled person and at the very same time hard to find someone with skills. AA is not legislated that way.

Besides anyone who wanders the corporate coridors of S.A or visits the private sector hospitals etc will notice the gross majority of management is lilly white. A study by SAIRR showed that even in parastatals
over 60% of management are still white (eskom etc).

Speaking of nationalisation/privitisation I'd like to make an unrelated point.

Does it ever occur to the far right who defend South Africa during apartheid when the propoganda of the day was "we are fighting the communists" that a country where the state owns just about everything, has total freedom of press, is big enough to give (you whites) everything or take it away, has compulsory militiary service, dictates where you live and what you study at school, what music and movies you are allowed to watch, what you are allowed to read in th newspapers, talks in double speak, has a limited token democratic system and even assumes to tell you who you may sleep with etc etc is not even a razors edge away from communism.

Think about it. Don't let your minds explodes by thinking about it too suddenly...just let it soak in slowly...


"Eveything I think I know is wrong ! Things they made me believe so much I was ready to stand on a border and kill or be killed for them was built on lies and prpoaganda ! The bastards !!!!"

The Rooster said...

* above should read "no freedom of press"

Dachshund said...

Yes of course there are young white Saffers working all over the world today because their horizons are much wider than they used to be. But it is true that whites, Indians and coloureds are being discriminated against in the workplace, and also with different admission requirements to get into universities. Race discrimination happened to me as well, in the early noughties, when I resigned my job as an accountant to get some breathing space and was told I could not work again because I was the wrong colour. One personnel consultant gushed at me, "Oh super, your CV is wonderful, but I am looking for a black person with your qualifications and experience. Can't you make yourself black for me, pretty please?"

I do know of several young whites who were passed over for promotion and left the country for England, and then sometimes they go on to America. I know white guys in the IT sector who were made redundant and then they could not get jobs again because they were the wrong colour. It's a legacy of apartheid, this discrimination against whites. I don't blame blacks and I'm not really complaining about it. They never ever again want to be treated like rubbish by whites. They don't trust us. We have to earn their trust. I see it as a challenge. What the hell, I have no choice but to see it as a challenge, because I am too old to emigrate and I wouldn't particularly want to live anywhere else anyway.

Dachshund said...

Actually apartheid South African was fascist.

Communism is where the government owns production and tries to benefit everyone equally thinly - theoretically, that is, because there are always fat cats at the top of every government.

Fascism uses state socialism to control production to benefit the state, or a certain ethnic group. We were right there with Adolf Hitler.

Fascists and communists hate each other because they are both control freaks but with different beneficiaries.

The Rooster said...

Well yes it was fascist, but I'm saying that the comparisons are eerie if you take South Africa (homelands excluded) as a lone entity it was operating much more like soviet Russia, Cuba or China than people realise and the irony is lost on most of that generation who were told they were fighting against communists.

The state supplied, employed, owned , provided and regulated just about every aspect of life here. The military spending was a massive part of GDP spending. What a kak concept really.

I stand my ground : If you are a skilled, qualified individual of any colour in South Africa you will easily find a job matching your skills.

A lot of the people I know who are working abroad are not skilled or qualified at all and are doing trivial labour unskilled labour there for minimal wages. Most return home even included the skilled ones. A few years away from the constant bombardment of alarmism that is the S.A media gives one a fresher perspective on things.

Trawl the S.A expat sites in Australia etc and you will find some seriously unhappy people trying to validate and justify their misery there in some pitiful type of support group to help deal with the homesickness. They lap up the "people can't even go outside in South Africa anymore" type of rubbish posted on the net. They've created this mythology about South Africa that anybody who lives in South Africa would confirm is absurd.


You heard the one that we don't even stop at red traffic lights ?

Consider the absurdity of this. Then we surely at least have the sense to stop at green ones given everyone is rushing through the red ones without stopping else we would all be dead in horrible car wrecks. this stupid crap just doesn't hold water.

Dachshund said...

Yes I'm sure it's true that some skilled workers are returning to SA for well paid jobs after getting valuable overseas experience, but another reason Saffers are coming home is the economic meltdown which has been continuing since 2008.

But to heck with the office lark as far as I am concerned. It wasn't wonderful working under the Boers and they were everywhere and still are. If you're a well qualified female they look at you with total distrust and give you shit work to do. An ex colleague and client of mine went from one insurance company after another to get away from the Boer bosses who wanted her to work for peanuts. If there was a takeover by Dutchmen she would immediately apply for a job elsewhere. She has now gone to the UAE for good. As far as I am concerned, I can earn as much in a month as an independent consultant than I did working for a Boer boss in a year.

On another note: did you hear that Jackie Selebi has been placed in Pretoria Central in the same section as Eugene de Kock, Janusz Walus and Clive Derby-Lewis? I find that rather tactless, especially since mafiosi Glenn Agliotti who started all the shit in the first place is allowed to walk free. It's quite tragic the way Selebi fell from grace. This is what happens when you are surrounded by scum.

pincer said...

Apartheid = fascism and Hitlerism. Watching too many Sieg!Heil! comics lately?

Apartheid=communism=state owns everything=economy in better shape than before 1994=border war hoax.
Sounds like you have a lot of End Conscription Campaign buddies around with a caricature like history of Apartheid South Africa - pre 1994 shit, post 1994 good. Advise you to contact some of the persons who were at the thick end of the wedge during the Border War and ask them their side of the story.

The Rooster said...

Your simplifying of my views is a typical extremist thing to do. To break down everything into almost binary terms when in fact things tend to be far more complex and have context and variables and third forces.

It's a stunted way of understanding the world. Cartesian dualism is so 15th century pre rennaisance. You understand that right ?

Dachshund said...

When Anders Breivik said that he had been inspired by I Luv SA to do what he did, that blog promptly closed down with no explanation given. There has never been any subsequent expression of remorse or regret from ILSA that they were partially responsible for what happened on that island off the Danish coast. The blogger Islandshark is a hate filled psychopath. The blogger who calls himself Mike Smith is a hate filled psychopath. He is a resentful stalker who phones people in the middle of the night for years on end and makes death threats at anyone who disagrees with him. How can that work? Does he think he is some kind of jihadist? "Mike Smith" has recently made himself ridiculous by attacking the Catholic Church on his blog by implying that the Church of Rome was called Catholic before the reformation. As a commentator correctly pointed out, the Christian Church was just the Christian Church before Martin Luther came along. The word Catholic means "universal". The point is that I have portrayed myself as a Catholic, and the stalker behind the Mike Smith/Islandshark/UhuruGuru names hates me to the extent that he has been wishing me dead for years now and pesters me with phone calls in the middle of the night every other day. In his hatred for me this resentful stalker says that all Catholics are vile and not to be trusted. He is very sick in the head, but not criminally insane. He knows exactly what he is doing. The psychopath suffers from seething depression because such a person does not have normal feelings and reactions. He cannot understand what really motivates people, so he mimics them, to make himself seem like others. This inevitably fails when people see through him and want nothing more to do with him. He then becomes depressed and starts to plot revenge. This can go on for years and years and years, with the people he harasses seldom resembling the person that set him off, they just need to be in the same category. It could have been a put down from a blonde blue eyed woman that made him hate all other blue eyed blondes. It can also end violently, as we have seen with Anders Breivik, but I would say that the person behind these three personae is more of a physical coward.This is a person who wants to control others, and he does not care how he does it. But he cannot control others forever; he can insult and disgust them and even, temporarily, frighten them. But people can see what a pathetic little person he is, and that is what fuels his depression and anger even more, and so it goes on.

Anonymous said...

Rooster, this country IS a failed state under black rule.

You can stick your fingers in your ears and scream and shout all you want but the facts are plain to see. We're the last domino standing on this continent and what makes us so special that our fate should be any different? Not the marvellous education system we're now forced to send our kids through nowadays, that's for sure.

Where are the pointers to indicate otherwise?

Don't worry though. When these baboons force this secrecy bill through you can jump for joy at how 99.9% of all news reported in SA is GOOD news -- as opposed to the dismal state of affairs whitey left things in, hey?

The Rooster said...

Rooster, this country IS a failed state under black rule.

You can stick your fingers in your ears and scream and shout all you want but the facts are plain to see. We're the last domino standing on this continent and what makes us so special that our fate should be any different? Not the marvellous education system we're now forced to send our kids through nowadays, that's for sure.

Where are the pointers to indicate otherwise?

_______________-


Oh dear god....sound the moron alert !


Why don't you tell me in whch way post 1994 S.A is a failed state. Of the following factors which are better and which are worse.

1) Economy
2) Violent crime rate
3) Being with elecricity, running water
4) People classifieds are middle class
5) People living in brick houses as oppossed to mud/tin shacks
6) People with basic access to clinics, creches, garbage disposal
7) People recieving a basic education
8) The average south African income (inflation considered and corrected for)


I think (well I know you will find) that in every single one of those ways we are significantly better off than 1994. So here what you kindly do.

Shut the fuck up.

Dachshund said...

LSD would not work because a psychopath does not have empathy for others and cannot feel remorse.

The Rooster said...

Oh and another point...as it seems with 99% of the media and those crying about about it you obviously have not read the "secrecy bill". There's fuck all in there that can censor a damn thing you want to say.

Dachshund said...

South Africa is far from being a failed state. Europe is stuffed though.

Dachshund said...

"It could have been a put down from a blonde blue eyed woman that made him hate all other blue eyed blondes."

He could also have been bitten by a dachshund or chihuahua or knocked down by a Great Dane, but you get the idea. Psychopaths hate animals and enjoy torturing them. Never trust anyone who can't stand dogs.

Anonymous said...

"Oh and another point...as it seems with 99% of the media and those crying about about it you obviously have not read the "secrecy bill". There's fuck all in there that can censor a damn thing you want to say."

----

Yes, genius. The whole of the brained population of our country are morons and their fears are totally unfounded. Fuck, you're an arrogant twat.

But ONE example of how greedy BLACKS (generic description of blacks in a position of power) are INCAPABLE of running a country is the latest revelation that Limpopo province, along with Gauteng and Free State are on the brink of total financial collapse.

Explain that one from your post 94 state of utopia please. I guess you'll come back with your usual canned response which is "ugh, well FUCK Joburg cuntfuckshitsomethingorother...it...it's a shit place, okay?! I've always said that! Move to the coast!" *sulk

Dachshund said...

The secrecy bill is by no means a done deed.

From today's Sowetan:

Secrecy Bill too 'highly elite'
Dec 8, 2011

PARLIAMENT'S processing of the Protection of State Information Bill has so far been "highly elite" and not inclusive of the views of ordinary citizens.

That's the view of ANC MP Papi Tau shortly after he was elected unopposed to chair the National Council of Provinces' (NCOP) ad hoc committee on the Protection of State Information Bill.

The bill was passed last month by the National Assembly (NA) despite stiff opposition from several political parties, the media and civil society bodies because it did not contain a public interests defence clause that could be used as legal defence if classified information is published for the public good.

The media and other lobby groups are now looking to the NCOP's ad hoc committee, hoping that it will be sympathetic to their call for the insertion of a public interest defence clause in the bill.

But Tau, who is also a house chairman of the NCOP, echoed the sentiments of his ANC counterparts in the National Assembly when he said that the processing of the bill had up to now failed to take into account the views of the man on the streets.

"At the moment if you look at the nature and the level of the debate it has been highly elite, it has been a process that has been delinked from the ordinary South African citizen," he said.

"That is where as the NCOP we would want to push our energy towards ensuring that our ordinary people on the ground understand what this piece of legislation is because there is so much that has been said; there's so many different messages that are being sent to South Africans."

Tau, who is a permanent delegate of the Northern Cape in the NCOP, brushed aside concerns that parliament's second chamber was likely to rubber stamp the bill from the National Assembly as it is, saying it had a history of sending back bills to the NCOP with serious amendments.

"I don't think it is absolutely correct to say that the NCOP is a rubber stamp . there's a whole range of pieces of legislation that were sent back to the assembly based on the proposed amendments that were made by the select committees of the NCOP," he said.

Tau's committee has until the end of April 2012 to process the bill.

It resumes business in the middle of January next year after the festive break.

http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2011/12/08/mp-secrecy-bill-too-highly-elite

The Rooster said...

But ONE example of how greedy BLACKS (generic description of blacks in a position of power) are INCAPABLE of running a country is the latest revelation that Limpopo province, along with Gauteng and Free State are on the brink of total financial collapse.

Explain that one from your post 94 state of utopia please.

_________________-

What's to explain ? You just descriced the enitire country's economy in early 1990's perfectly : Brink of financial collapse.

18 ? years on and we've more than doubled our GDP. Increased the average income (of all ethnic groups) by close tp 200% , (inflation taken into consideration)had our greatest and fastest ever economic growth period BY FAR between the years 2002-2008 and are still doing better than most countries through this global recession.

So what's to explain again ?

The Rooster said...

I guess you'll come back with your usual canned response which is "ugh, well FUCK Joburg cuntfuckshitsomethingorother...it...it's a shit place, okay?! I've always said that! Move to the coast!" *sulk

________________-

On that note JHB is a shit place.

pincer said...

"Oh and another point...as it seems with 99% of the media and those crying about about it you obviously have not read the "secrecy bill".

This website is starting to sound more and more like an ANC apologist website, regardless of claiming to contrary. Blind on the left eye.

So you are saying that you are cleverer than 99% of the media? That not one of them perhaps have read the secrecy bill? That our media are all oafs? Even not the DA or the FF+ who got the same concerns?

Dachshund: "The secrecy bill is by no means a done deed."

Where were you all the years, seemingly having grown up under Apartheid? You never heard about the communist tactic of two steps forward, on step backward? Why do you think they went to so much trouble to draft such a bill? Out of boredom in order to generate work? Your hate against everything Boer seems to blind you against all reason.

The Rooster said...

If you weren't part of the dumb,lemming like 99% you wouldn't be at all suprised about how often the 99% are wrong (or easily mislead) about almost everything.

Dachshund said...

It's entirely beside the point who I like and who I don't like. The days of the National Party and white rule are over, finito. If you don't like living under a black government, then leave the country. Oh, you already did, but you don't like it so much in the UK. That's your problem. I have not one shred of sympathy for anyone who sits around in the UK whining about how great SA used to be when it was under white rule, because it wasn't fantastic by any stretch of the imagination.

I am now tired of fruitless arguments with total losers who have become even more boring than the ex-Rhodie "when we's". See you on your other blog, Rooster.

Anonymous said...

"to cause race tension and ignore a race war in South Africa."

I'm unable to take you sresiouly...or is that seriously? My my, the C.B.C education you had was KAK eh?

pincer said...

"Of the factors people are significantly better off after 1994"

You are only producing the figures which suit your agenda, and excluding the figures to the contrary.

Let us start with "1) Economy", namely income levels.

I can take you to people who are doing significantly worse that before:

Whites made unemployed by BEE, school teachers and other civil service employees, people who are not promoted due to BEE, squatters, entrepreneurs with their own business, pensioners (e.g. Transnet). Former white civil service emplyees after the ANC cleaned the civil service ranks. Lower end bank and insurance company employees. Minimum wage laws keep a big part of the potential employees away from the income cake, that's old news. So does Union meddling keep millions of potential employees out of the market, and see that their greedy pigs are at the top of the feeding trough. Meanwhile money gets redistributed into all kinds of uneconomical projects in order to keep the black masses quiet.

I can even make out a case that the common black worker is worse of under the ANC than under Apartheid, and that the older generation blacks know this, for they still remember the true face of the ANC, namely a ruthless terrorist organization which sowed chaos and mayhem between them by means of a peoples war. This older generation has no voice that speaks to them, thus they submit out of fear and intimidation, and they also are dying out of old age, being replaced by a re-educated (brainspooled) youth out of touch which their own history.

South Africa's income graph is mushroom shaped - a top income cader (ANC and its croonies, which include white liberals) with connections who pocket everything, and a long fat stem which Lazarus like feeds off the crumbs falling from the table.

Go and contact your local FF+ representative or Solidarity union representative for more information on this.

The Rooster said...

Pincer you going to show me tangible evidence for your statments or you just going to carry on throwing bollocks claims out there and trying to sell them off as fact ?

Fuck the FF+...go talk to an economist if you want to compare S.A's economy before and after not a bunch of khaki pants and two tone wearing mielie farmers.

Dachshund said...

One last thing before I go: I was programmed by the Nats to be a racist, and it has taken me three years via this blog and also by the particularly vicious actions of the so called far right to be debriefed. I am now no longer a racist; in fact, I sometimes find myself fighting off warm feelings for Julius Malema as a direct result of some or other stupid Boer thug trying to intimidate me. So what you verkrampte whackheads have achieved is to cause me to seek and find enlightenment.

But you know Rooster, the far right isn't the real problem. They are so absurd as to be laughable. You can be more careful of the everyday white who feels resentment towards blacks but otherwise behaves quite normally. You find this everywhere, whether in personal or business dealings. It makes me want to tear my hair out because being racist is such a waste of opportunity.

You were talking about consulting an economist instead of the FF++ and Solidarity. Let's spell out the economics of opportunity cost. When you take one action with a low or negative rate of return instead of another action that could have given you a positive return, that is what is known as opportunity cost. Another way of putting it is that you cut your own nose to spite your face when you carry on repeating behaviour that gives no positive reward for any of the parties concerned.

I'm glad I've had this experience of changing my outlook, painful though it sometimes was. It was a learning curve. Some people may never, ever get over yearning for a past that really wasn't. They are living in LaLaland.

The Rooster said...

Dach you would be surprised at how many emails I have received offering the same sentiments. This "useless" little blog has achieved more than it's given credit for. The thorn I inserted deeply into the side of rhetoric that was going around 4-5 years is evident. Nobody tries to pull the "3000 boer" murder rubbish anymore.

pincer said...

"Fuck the FF+...go talk to an economist if you want to compare S.A's economy before and after not a bunch of khaki pants and two tone wearing mielie farmers".

You miss my point. I speak about who are the beneficiaries of the economy and the post 1994 South Africa, regardless on how good it is doing. the least of the economist will speak about this publicly for then he has to make a political statement and that comes down to a career suicide. Do you think for example Cees Bruggemans, the FNB chief economist, will tread on this very dangerous ground? Not a tickey, forget it.

"Opportunity cost". Well I have done operational research (management science) and marketing as a subject, but now we move on the political terrain ans talk about a political cost, where people are involved and whats best for them. And I see that a relative small group of people benefit out of the system and if you don't follow their ideology you get cats aside to dwindle away your life in poverty.

1000/3000 etc. farm murders. The murders did take place,w e can debate about the race but that should have been the job of the state, for that purpose it receives tax, and they are not doing their job. You can argue around this issue like you want to, fact is exact statistics are guess work. There are not even statistics about attempted farm murders, those figures may be horrific (or not). Same with attacks on whites in urban areas.

And what about the bigger picture? Farm murders are only only a subsection of censorbugbear and similar blogs. There is a whole can of worms to be uncovered. It does not stop at farm murders. Comparisons with Russia - now that is equally bad and puts all of us into a high risk category and why should that be so? Because then there is something very very wrong in the management of the countries. But Russia came out of the Soviet system, we came out of a capitalist system, not a Soviet dictatorship.

Dachshund said...

Rooster, I'm not all that surprised to hear that. You've done great work.

The Rooster said...

Comparisons with Russia - now that is equally bad and puts all of us into a high risk category and why should that be so? Because then there is something very very wrong in the management of the countries. But Russia came out of the Soviet system, we came out of a capitalist system, not a Soviet dictatorship.


_____________________________

Capatalist system ? What the fuck are you on about ? The state ran fucking everything , censored everything etc ! Free market my fucking ass !

The Rooster said...

And what about the bigger picture? Farm murders are only only a subsection of censorbugbear and similar blogs. There is a whole can of worms to be uncovered. It does not stop at farm murders.

____________________________


Rubbish ! It's the entire premise and pretty much only constantly played card behind the extreme white supremacist South African white movement.

That's until I came allong and put that nonsense to bed anyway. Now when Steve Hoffmeyer pots Adriana's list on his website at least most people roll their eyes.

And when will you old fucks get it in your thick fucking skulls that the shitty system you tried to put in place was never going to transcend easily into fucking perfection without plenty of hickups. There is not a noble fucking morsel about wishying back the oppression and dehuminisation of millions of people. Sentient people with potential and the fucking right to explore it.

It just takes one lindiwe mazibuko to prove wrong everything the "mike smith/uhuru guru" types propose about "Race realism". And there are already in this short time 100 of thousands.

ChickenLicken said...

@ Dachshund, I see you are still on about certain bloggers being one and the same.

Can you provide any proof that you have ever been threatened or stalked by anybody at I Luv SA?

Don't bother to answer - I happen to know all three of these individuals.

The best you can come up with, is that I Luv SA inspired a madman - because he apparently copied articles published on the blog - articles written by somebody else and cited as such.

Go back to smoking pot with your friends. You must be better at that than analysing events on political blogs.

By the way, I have actually seen your emails to UG - I wonder who is stalking who? You do get up to some unprofessional conduct for a so called financial advisor. Or is that the typical South African terminology to describe a glorified policy sales person?

The Rooster said...

Chickenlinken ...perhaps not the best person to really comment on stalking and obsession on the net eh ?

Remember your flopped go at reincarnating zasucks and your "expose" of "me" and "rendier" ? What a farce that was, even your "readers" couldn't tolerate your one track minded lameness.

pincer said...

"The state ran fucking everything , censored everything etc!"

This is blatantly untrue. Did you actually live in the Apartheid times? I mean, as a grown up, not as a teenager or child. There was a civil service, and there was the private sector. Where did the state ever run the private sector, for example the mining, banking and insurance industry?

"There is not a noble fucking morsel about wishying back the oppression and dehuminisation of millions of people".

1. Now exactly how many were oppressed? You must be careful not to overshoot your target this time. The magic number 6 million of them?

2. Lets test some dates. When did it start and when did it end?

3. What was the nature of this oppression?

The Rooster said...

This is blatantly untrue. Did you actually live in the Apartheid times? I mean, as a grown up, not as a teenager or child. There was a civil service, and there was the private sector. Where did the state ever run the private sector, for example the mining, banking and insurance industry?
________________

A fuck load more state controlled enterprise than today anyway. Nice attempt to rewrite history.

The Rooster said...

1. Now exactly how many were oppressed? You must be careful not to overshoot your target this time. The magic number 6 million of them?

2. Lets test some dates. When did it start and when did it end?

3. What was the nature of this oppression?

______________________

You're a fucking joke if you expect me to even validate and endorse those pathetic insensitive "questions" with an answer.

pincer said...

'You're a fucking joke if you expect me to even validate and endorse those pathetic insensitive "questions" with an answer'.

Its getting hot in the kitchen corner, isn't it?

'A fuck load more state controlled enterprise than today anyway'.

Like for example?

Ever heard about ANC state tender family connections? Chancellor House?

The closest the apartheid government controlled the private sector was with the arms industry, for example Armscor, but that had to do with national defense during the Cold War while the liberal forces in the West (e.g. Clark amendment) boycotted South Africa so that it could be delivered into the jaws of the Communist wolf.

The state started to extend censorship on the press which aligned itself with the Communist aligned forces in the West by undermining the security of the state in the midst of when South Africa had to fight a two front war.

The first front was on the Angolan border, and the second front was inside South Africa trying to topple the government of the day by methods used in the Vietnam war. In this very dangerous situation the English South African press started to undermine the internal security in the manner of writing of the anti-Apartheid press outside South Africa, and the Afrikaans press gave the final dagger-shock by twisting the truth and by hiding the full extend of the NP treason against its own constituent.

The Rooster said...

yaaaaaawwwwwwwnnnnnnnn.

Load of crap and you know it Bert.

The Rooster said...

Armcor was the only state owned company ? Really want me to post a list to humiliate you ?

pincer said...

"Armcor was the only state owned company ? Really want me to post a list to humiliate you ?"

You accused South Africa of not being a capitalist country. There is a difference between a 'state owned company' and 'controlling the economy'. You had semi-state companies like Telkom, but semi-state companies are not unique to South Africa, so that argument won't run.

Please provide evidence that the state controlled the economy in such a manner that it could not be regarded a capitalist economy.

I am waiting with great expectations to your reply so as to augment my body of knowledge.

The Rooster said...

Everything that is state owned today plus sasol, iscor, telkom etc which were privtised under the A.N.C ?

The state controlled who (race specific) could work in what position and who revieved what level of education. The state controlled what was taught at schools and and what was allowed to be published in newspapers. The state taxed us MORe than it does today and spent most of it on a certain tiny sector of the populace (whites)and the army. The state forced the international world to sanction us. Teh state hired on the railways and mines, and co sponosored at dirt cheap rates housing for uneducated white Afrikaners. The state forced you to go to the army as a white with few exceptions.

Call it what you like, but in Apartheid South Africa South Africa the government was BAAS. And to the layman who doesn't understand the first thing about economics this is what they associate with communism. I mean who would call China a capatalist country (although today compared to Apartheid South Africa it massively is)?

All semantics and tosh. Your hard on for Apartheid is a character flaw and frankly you need to work through it and join the modern world or die away as a relic.

The Rooster said...

Not to forget the state controlled where you could live, who could vote (around 10% of us), who recieved what level of medical care, what body parts you could look at without stars on them...WHO YOU COULD FUCK...

Nee man gaan kak ! Wat 'n kak plek.

pincer said...

“Everything that is state owned today plus sasol, iscor, telkom etc which were privtised under the A.N.C ?”

The government departments are state owned, and are still state owned today. That is, the owners are the tax payers, the citizens. The same in the USA, Europe, Guatemala and even in the Republic of Houtbay. So whats your point?

Sasol, Iscor etc.

Huh? Whats this got to do with capitalism or not? Many a large corporation in this world start out as a state enterprise because the private sector is not prapared to take the initial risk. You can read this in any industrial economics 101 course. Then we’d still be sitting without a Telkom, trainsystem and Sasol. Privatisation in South Africa gained momentum when the National Party government published its White Paper on Privatisation and Deregulation in 1987 - Sasol (1979), Iscor (1989). Telkom is not privatized but semi-state and that is why our bills are so high because the ANC uses it as a big time milk cow.

“The state controlled who (race specific) could work in what position and who revieved what level of education…tax only for the benefit of tiny proportion of whites”

Huh? This is called the legislative powers of the state, the state in our case being a republic and voted into power by the whites by the system of proportional representation, and more than once. Surely the whites must then have a say over how their tax money is being spent? Surely in the case of whites voting for a white government with white tax money, they can demand what happens with their white tax money?

The blacks? The blacks had their homelands, and on top of it all, all of the rest of Africa. There they could make or break as they wished. The Republic was our property and our little place in the sun, earned by paid title deed and other tractates. All documented in the main Land Affairs database. Your problem seems to be that the blacks could not get their grubby hands into our well-earned wealth.

pincer said...

“The state taxed us MORe than it does today and spent most of it on a certain tiny sector of the populace (whites)and the army”.

Because the whites were the tax payers, dumdum. I earn, I get the benefit of my pay, not someone else. Capito? But what was the reality? Out of every R1.- tax earned the state spent 90 cents on black upliftment. Was common knowledge in those days when you still were in your baby shoes. Tax graphs. Political meetings. Pamphlets. Hansard. Soweto was built on a huge IMF loan. Who paid for the 16 times more black schools than the white schools (Max du Preez, Vrye Weekblad). Where did you learn your shit? Nelson Mandela University?

Blacks had a first class education system back then (I’ll come back onto this later after you howl about this one).

“The state forced the international world to sanction us”.

The. state. forced.international. sanctions.on.us? That’s a new one. I always thought it was the other way around -sanctions were forced unto us. Who the fuck were they do meddle in our affairs and decide whats good for us?

“Teh state hired on the railways and mines, and co sponosored at dirt cheap rates housing for uneducated white Afrikaners”.

So fucking what? Their pay was low, was part of their package. Low education? After the Brits slashed-and-burned their farms and the 1929 depression drove them into the cities? Did not stay that way, soon they were educated, given the chance. White pay tax, white get benefits. Who paid for the black hostels? Black hospitals. Black houses. Black water and lights? Black homelands? You want a longer list?

pincer said...

“The state forced you to go to the army as a white with few exceptions”.

And? During the Cold War it was the norm in the West. Germans were conscripted. Lots of countries conscripted. the communists conscripted. You reply with the same language. We were in the midst of an escalating war with the communists. Fail.

„Call it what you like, but in Apartheid South Africa South Africa the government was BAAS.”

Whats so different today? Same shit different color. At least the white government also looked after black interests (I’ll come back to this after you howl over that).

“Not to forget the state controlled where you could live, who could vote (around 10% of us), who recieved what level of medical care,

Yes of course. They were voted into office by the whites and then they should act according to the mandate given to them by the whites. Medical care was good and cheap in those days. Free condoms. Free clinics. World class hospitals, also for the blacks. Great. They looked after our interests. Today medicare is unaffordable and on the verge
of collape.Whats the problem?

“what body parts you could look at without stars on them...”

That was called family values in those days. The families were fully functional in those days unlike today. Despite the stars. Porn has two purposes: big bucks and destruction of western family values. It does not teach family values.

WHO YOU COULD FUCK...”

You a meitnaaier or a proponent of count Coudenhove-Calergi or both? As if there already are not enough problems around the colored question. What’s wrong with fucking your own race? No self-control?

“What a kak plek”

So did you fuckoff from that kak place?

Dachshund said...

Directed at me:

"You do get up to some unprofessional conduct for a so called financial advisor. Or is that the typical South African terminology to describe a glorified policy sales person?"

That's rich coming from you, Bert. You stole my photo from a website called FindAnAdvisor. You hacked into my computer to find another photo of me to flaunt around on the internet. And you advertise yourself as a trustworthy IT consultant?

You will still be extradited to South Africa to stand trial for this and other crimes.

The Rooster said...

Pincer you're singing from the qapartheid proaganda song book. Pitiful you STILL swallow that kool ade years after it was shoved down your throat. Now that you've had time to reflect do you honestly believe a fucking word of what you're trying to sell me ?

I don't know who you aim this fictional version of South Africa where blacks had "world class" hospitals to go to when they were sick and recieved an exellent education etc. I think you're so used to pandering to the extreme righties in europe and the states on your website. Some advice keep it there because mine is read by South Africans who KNOW what a pile of drivel you wrote there is having lived through it.

Blacks under white rule lived at best in mud huts and shacks without electricity or running water, with extremely poor job and career prospects legislated by LAW. You're attempt to sell apartheid as a paradise for blacks is a fucking joke. Pull that bullshit again and I'm not posting it. This wopn't become your little soap box to spread your distortions and bollocks and rub it in the face of injustices of the past.

Having grown up in a farming area I saw how beating a black person for an simple error to the edge of his life was ALWAYS looked over/ignored by the cops (and still often happens today by the way). Even stories like this one(intended to be humorous) about how a guy had run over some black people while paraletic( drunk and driving) and how the cops helped drive him home and closed a blind eye are common place.

To draw any comparitive "evil" to the gross system of apartheid to todays government (who I do not vote for or support by the way)is a massive insult to the A.N.C. DESPITE them being a corrupt, neptistic, useless government.

The extreme progress for all South Africans in almost every single way is objectivly verifiable and real. I'm sorry but if you were actually in any way ever concerned about the welfare of South Africans you would have been crying out during Apartheid and not suddenly now found a voice.

I don't know why I bother to point out the obvious. You're a white supremacist and your world view taken to it's logical conclusion dictates that whites rule over other races and eat first at the trough. Why would any black or non white person entertain your ideas ? May remind you that describes 90% of our country.


In the word's of Leonard Cohen "You're living for nothing now."

The Rooster said...

And there's nothing wrong with fucking your own race or any consentual sex of any kind. Why do you have an issue about people who fuck out of their "race" ?

(The gross consensus in science is that "race" as a biological concept does not exist by the way so by discussing it of course we mean race as a social construct).

I mean who really makes it their business to decide who other people can or can't fuck ? I try and keep my politics very much in the centre, but I don't understand this part of conservatism at all. Whether it's taking issue with people sexuality of being hyper protective about people marrying /fucking within their "race". And it's generally always the lower class, uneducated hillbilly/skin head types who cling to these kind of beliefs.

As a libetarian all I ask is that whoever assumes to be my "authority" will meet my shotgun if he digs his nose into what goes on in my bedroom. You'd think the extreme right would be with me on this point.

Strange bunch, strange world.

Dachshund said...

Talking about uneducated hillbillies, have you seen this?
______________________________

Angus Buchan is still at it. The self proclaimed arsehole of god is doing faith healings, revivals and delivarences. Go oom Angus!!!!!!

http://www.shalomtrust.co.za/inside-shalom/angus-buchan-biography

I have just returned from Paarl MMC (Mighty Men Convention). The people are very hungry for Jesus! I have never in my life seen people sitting outdoors, without a cloud in the sky, no form of shade whatsoever with a raging temperature of approximately 47 degrees, not moving, totally attentive because we are in REVIVAL!!! Whilst preparing for the Bushveld MMC, ek is baie lus vir die Heilige Gees, Prys die Here almal!!!

Please pray for us, as we are axpeting a huge response!

Love

Oom Angus & Tannie Jill

http://mcbrolloks.wordpress.com/2011/03/24/angus-buchan-is-still-at-it-the-self-proclaimed-arsehole-of-god-is-doing-faith-healings-revivals-and-delivarences-go-oom-angus/

Idiot Gretha Wiid, spokeswoman for the indoctrination of wifes, dogters en ander etterse aanhangsels:

This week has seen the light where the two major Afrikaner churches spoke out against Greta Wiid and her female version of the Mighty Men.

The irony of it all is that both the Dutch Reformed church (NG KERK) and the Reformed church (Hervormende kerk) supports the subservient female role in the church, both these churches are now backtracking their "beliefs" of the women's role in marriage and speaks against the worthy women cause. They do, however, still support the Mighty Men conferences which preaches the same message.

The question is now, is this because its a WOMAN that holds the conference or is it really, TRULY an about turn on their stance?

Greta Wiid – We Are Not Worthy
If Gretha Wiid had one wish, it seems, it would be that we return to a time when men were heads of their households and women tittered around worrying about nothing more than their make-up and how sexually attractive they are to their husbands. It is, as we all know by now, a recipe for disaster. But that doesn’t stop Ms Wiid from behaving like a self-proclaimed latter-day prophetess channeling the hungry ghost of some long departed 50s housewife.

At a recent breakfast in Centurion, Ms Wiid told an audience of “ladies” that if they wanted to keep their men happy they had to do the following; brush their hair and put on lipstick before their husbands came home from work and never say ‘no’ to sex.

She told the audience that if their husbands did cheat on them it was probably their own fault and that they should shave their legs and armpits more often. Women, she suggested, should view all other women as enemies and potential rivals for their husband’s bounty.

And then the absolute show stopper (and I’m still looking for this passage in the bible) – that women should use sex as a means to an end and that if you want your husband to buy you something, shag him. (Maybe I should get a copy of The Happy Hooker instead of wasting my time with the good book).

Then there’s the old hoary cliché that women should just get used to the fact that men are driven by pure instinct and can’t help it that they are hunters and need to conquer things.

That the male brain is generally larger and more powerful than his penis does not seem to feature in Ms Wiid’s understanding of human reproduction.

Ms Wiid’s “Worthy Women” series is being touted as the female equivalent of Mr Buchan’s “Mighty Men” sideshow currently revitalizing millions of South African men.

Ms Wiid herself was once a victim, she tells her audiences. Her husband Francois, had multiple affairs until they both found God and she had a vision about how to be a better wife.

http://www.secularcafe.org/archive/index.php/t-2721.html

What kind of two tone khaki clad wife beating doos and his lesser half do you suppose is willing to trek and pay R160 and R400 a pop respectively to listen to total kak at Mighty Men and Worthy Women conventions?

pincer said...

“You're a white supremacist and your world view taken to it's logical conclusion dictates that whites rule over other races and eat first at the trough”.

It might sound like that from my writings, but that is because you do not know me well enough. Thus won’t hold this perception against you.

"Pitiful you STILL swallow that kool ade years after it was shoved down your throat".

Crap man, I (immigrant child, early 1960's) grew up in this country and that is what I observed. I am a time witness. I saw these things with my own eyes. Must I now lie about it? Nobody shoved anything down my throat. Never. I am an independent thinker with a scientific bend of mind (formally tested as an INTJ). I just report my experiences, because I see so many lies are being told about the past. Not that Apartheid was a paradise, many of the old race questions have not yet been solved. But life itself is no paradise and it is an ongoing struggle for the truth.

What I see are basically two directions. Direction one is one of a lack of knowledge due to a lack of personal experience of those days. Direction two has an altogether much more sinister feel, namley the purposeful supression of events ion those days, and the falsification of information, i.e. a political motive.

“I mean who really makes it their business to decide who other people can or can't fuck?”

If you live on your own planet, then most probably not. But you do not live in isolation, you live within a society, and your actions thus have an impact on this society. If you get AIDS, you die, but that has an economic impact on society, for they carry part of the bill, and one less productive member of society has been removed, and it could be the parent of a child. Intercourse has an effect, for that is procreation and survival of the species, and that I will briefly discuss next.

pincer said...

And that angle is what is good for mankind at large on the long run. First of all humans on earth have not appeared as one big grey mix, but as individual races with certain traits. Why this is so, I do not know, and as I am no religious person in the usual sense, I can not explain it by Biblical means, but I explain it by observing nature, and try to categorize and organize things so that it will make some sense. there are however limits, for there is not enough evidence going around, so lots of thinking is done by guesswork.

Now I observe that nature (whatever that is) has included creation in the bigger scheme of things. Life. A flower is born from a seed, procreates, withers and dies. And while there is life, there is the urge for survival, not suicide. So that was meant to be like that.

I can expand a lot on this, but then I write a book.

In short, I see that if you start mixing races, you dilute certain properties. Some strengths are augmented, others disappear. Strengths I explain as those properties aiding toward survival.

So far all the evidence I have seen is that if for example you mix a black person with a white person, on the long run you get more negative than positive properties. The bell-shaped curve has been twisted. It does not do the black man good, it does not do the white man good. So there must be some kind of law in nature that wants us to preserve our species, for the best chance of our survival.

And this must be something built into us. In our genes. For the same abilities reappear over and over through our history. Genes I see as the hardware and software of a computer, and environment I see as the way the program interacts on the outside varibles. The hardware is, as far as my knowledge goes, pretty fixed, but the software is modifiable by environmental factors (in practical terms - you can brainwash someone. Some people more, some people less), but only in such a way the hardware allows it. Sort of you will not make a supercomputer out of a PC, or a Porsche out of a mini. Those are the genetical fixed switches.

What will happen on the long run if all the white genes mix (or for that matter, other races). We then start to interfere with nature in a way which has not yet proved itself, and this process is irreversible (at least with our current level of technology). what then if there was a miscalculation?

What will, for instance happen to the black man, taking into account the evolutionary stage he is sitting on today? Is it good for him? You might be taking away his chances on the long run of climbing up the evolutionary ladder. Our only evidence is what we know what happened in history. The whites have come a long way on the evolutionary ladder, from barbarism to the product of today, a product being the outcome a millenia long sifting processes by means of wars and conflicts. The black man must go the same road, find his own way, prove himself. Today there is gross interference by mankind, tampering in processes which he does not even remotely understand.

pincer said...

What do we observe world wide with the race mixing that already has taken place? Slums, favelas, high crime, more dependence on other less mixed species for survival. In the least cases a hightening of creativity and intelligence.That means that certain stabilizing properties have been altered, and what are those? That is for research to decide, and research has already determined some of these factors.

What for example happens if you start manipulating mankind in a way that there is a general decrease in intelligence and creativity, and this decrease happens to one of the leading cultures on this world? The effect will be disastrous. There will be general decline in creativity, thus that culture will sink one step lower toward the animal level, and one step away from the homo sapiens level. The survivability of that species will lessen. There will be a lessened chance of reaching for the stars, in the worst kind it will be a return to the primal soup if the intelligence decreases to such a level that everything is destroyed in a nuclear holocaust because it cannot work anymore with its inventions.

That will be evolution in reverse, and I am not sure that this was part of the original plan of nature.

And there is evidence that there is a targeted attempt in the last two centuries to weaken the genotype of the white race,in order to weaken its historical influence. This is not done in order to enhance the survivability of mankind, but to enhance the material well-being of a small group of people who could not care a fuck in general about mankind and reaching out to the stars. A type of a minus man, a rogue element in the balance of nature.

The Rooster said...

Ah fuck ...another social fucking darwinist I have to educate.

Look man...here's the facts as verified by mapping the human gene pool.


1)The genetic variance between men and women of the same race is greater than the genetic difference between two men of different races.

2) There is as much genetic variance within race groups than between them.

There is very much a consensus on the fact that "race" does not exist in a biologically sense. This is not some conspiracy theory, this is hard science.

I know there are some "renegades" out there like Dr Watson (of Watson and Kriek fame) but they really are laughed off by the gross majority of biologists and anthropologists. He's part of a tiny minority that work with a very specific(social darwinist t boils down to )agenda. He's like the Alex Jones of the show.

Now if there was some predicitive genetype that in any significant way was able to make any kind of correlation between a "race" and behaviour it would be very handy information to have and indeed this was the very thing we sought to study by mapping the gene pool. Sadly for us "race" failed to show such a correlation.

Yes people make flimsy correlations between behaviours and people of certain skin colours and I can understand why if you're not educated why you'd think there must be something behind it.


There is. It's called "culture and environment".


As you pointed out people of all "races" in the very recent past have a history of barabarism, savagery and violence etc. The West was throwing poo out of buckets into the streets and burning witches at the stake and raping and pillaging and behading and flogging and slaving and waring et en masse not thousands but hundreds of years ago, 10's of years ago in some cases.

Sub Saharan Africa lags behind in most social indicators. Does this mean its people are genetically predisposed to remain in such a backwards state ? No. There are hundreds of thousands of examples of educated, intelligent, productive, non violent sub saharan africans who share the exact same genetics as others who are violent, uneducated etc.


This alones rubbishes your claims. An individual plus education, sold social structures such as good parenting etc will not turn out the same way as one without education, poor parents, economic conditions etc because they share the same genes.


It's so obvious and yet so many people still think "genetics make up" rather than culture and envornment is the problem. Stupid.

pincer said...

You simplify things.

"Does this mean its people are genetically predisposed to remain in such a backwards state?"

Where did I write this? I wrote that the different races are on different stages of evolution. And that there is an overlap, but also differences. And the product of the mixing of the differences is something inferior.

"An individual plus education, sold social structures such as good parenting etc will not turn out the same way as one without education, poor parents, economic conditions etc because they share the same genes".

You take the standpoint of the environmentalists and ignore the genetic side (Eysenck vs. Kamin). The argument is not that no genetics are involved, but the percentage involved. Are you aware of that fact, you student of psychology?

But no. The bigger trend is that the one draws down the other ones culture. For example look how much money has been invested into the blacks, and what is the balance of the outcome? In South Africa, in Africa, in the USA, the many social experiments - what is the balance of the outcome of all this effort? It is money down the drain. How does genetics explain this?

"1)The genetic variance between men and women of the same race is greater than the genetic difference between two men of different races.

2) There is as much genetic variance within race groups than between them".

Source?

This still allows for the existence of different races. And that mapping project is not yet completed, so some things are still inconclusive. Some anomalies have recently been discovered which you do not mention, or are not aware off.

Do you deny the observable differences? That some races were able to create high cultures and others not? There are always individuals whop manage to get out of their circumstances, regardless the circumstances. Take the thirty years war where nearly two thirds of Europe was destroyed. Go back to the ice ages and what is the product today? Some cultures have developed to high cultures, others not. And there is a close relationship between the way the culture has manifested itself and the inherent traits of the people who created this high culture. The oriental high culture have taken a different path than the occidental high cultures. Going back in history the black were on the lower rungs of civilization in their achievements. some sub species are still in the stone age today and have difficulties adapting to our way of life, and that is a sin against nature.

How does genetics explain this? That means the research is still incomplete and the bigger picture has yet to be unraveled, i.e. mapped against what we observe in real life and history. There are observable racial peculiarities. And that some traits are shared - that I do not deny. There is overlap.

pincer said...

How does genetics explain this? That means the research is still incomplete and the bigger picture has yet to be unraveled, i.e. mapped against what we observe in real life and history. There are observable racial peculiarities. And that some traits are shared - that I do not deny. There is overlap. We have four limbs, a head and a nose. But then there are differences. External, and internal.

"The West was throwing poo out of buckets into the streets and burning witches at the stake and raping and pillaging and behading and flogging and slaving and waring et en masse not thousands but hundreds of years ago, 10's of years ago in some cases".

Do you actually have more than an inkling about western history? I have my doubts. That would be very difficult to have obtained that level of detail in this country with its scarcity of books. European libraries paint quite a different and much more diversified picture.

Those events happened but there is more detail behind it than the popular picture. There were zones of disorder, especially in the times of disorder during wars, and action was taken in order to rectify the situation. It did not stay that way. It went back to an equilibrium. Even in the middle ages laws were enacted to stop that kind of behavior. I have read a book and saw the enacted laws in that book. This book rectified the popular view of disorder and pooping into the streets. Mostly there was order in the day to day life in the medieval villages (that is why the villages with high walls were created in the first place. To create safety and order zones).

That is, civilized behavior returned after the war pot came to rest. Archeology (the science of the spade) show us toilets and other forms of hygiene measures, right from the Roman times through to the middle ages and today.

"There are hundreds of thousands of examples of educated, intelligent, productive, non violent sub saharan africans who share the exact same genetics as others who are violent, uneducated etc."

I have not touched on the violence part. Each race still has to do some weeding out of unwanted characteristics. But perhaps there is a reason for that we do not understand.

Wars are the accelerators of history and weed out characteristics and create new technological heights. A stationary pond stagnates until stirred.

My argument goes around the creation of a high culture and there must be a genetic base behind that, and that some high cultures were leading high cultures, and others not.

The Rooster said...

Where did I write this? I wrote that the different races are on different stages of evolution. And that there is an overlap, but also differences. And the product of the mixing of the differences is something inferior.



__________________________


Crap. We're homo-sapien sapiens which can interbreed and share extremely similiar genetic code between ethinic groups. We're not at "different stages". That's an idea that went out of scientific vogue almost over 100 years ago called "social darwinism". It is flat out wrong.

The Rooster said...

You take the standpoint of the environmentalists and ignore the genetic side (Eysenck vs. Kamin). The argument is not that no genetics are involved, but the percentage involved. Are you aware of that fact, you student of psychology?


____________________-

I have a very healthy up to debate familiarity with the debate. The hardline biological determinists and even socio-biologists have been losing ground for years.

The Rooster said...

But no. The bigger trend is that the one draws down the other ones culture. For example look how much money has been invested into the blacks, and what is the balance of the outcome? In South Africa, in Africa, in the USA, the many social experiments - what is the balance of the outcome of all this effort? It is money down the drain. How does genetics explain this?


_________________________-


There are so many variables at play. There has been a lot of progress but of course it will take time. Probably the black kids growing up now in South Africa with access to good education will be the our first westernised population with western values. They already exist in significant numbers. Walk around a mall or sit in a restuarant and you'll see a bunch of educated black kids who speak to each other in english south africac accents.

Where it has failed is that obviously a lot done for Africa in the name of "aid" was bullshit and propped up corrupt regimes to secure favourable trade agreements. AS we speak sub saharan Africa has massive GDP growth compared to the rest of the world. So anyone singing the africa doom and gloom dity probably needs to get out of the 1980's.

_____________________

The Rooster said...

My argument goes around the creation of a high culture and there must be a genetic base behind that, and that some high cultures were leading high cultures, and others not.

_______________________

Crap man. One man's high culture is Ballet or fox hunting while anothers is eating monkey brain from live monkeys. Culture is relative and there's sweet fuck all "high" unless we argue from a point of universal ethics.


And what are the universal ethics ? The golden rules ?

- Word it how you like...I'm not religious but it comes down to "Do unto others and you would have them do unto you."


How does a neo fascist who wants to opress black people and glorifies apartheid even enter into a debate about universal ethics or "high culture" ?

Baffles the mind ! DO YOU NOT HAVE ANY INSIGHT INTO YOURSELF AT FUCKING ALL ???

pincer said...

"Where it has failed is that obviously a lot done for Africa in the name of "aid" was bullshit and propped up corrupt regimes to secure favourable trade agreements."

Yes. But a lot was not bullshit. It takes two to tango. If Africa puts itself into a weak position, there will be vultures. That's life.

"Crap man. One man's high culture is Ballet or fox hunting while anothers is eating monkey brain from live monkeys. Culture is relative and there's sweet fuck all "high" unless we argue from a point of universal ethics".

Then you have no idea what a high culture is. Its more than fox hunting, it is the sum total of its achievements.

"AS we speak sub saharan Africa has massive GDP growth compared to the rest of the world".

This GDP used to be before during the colonial times. The drivers are not blacks, its on the back of none-white developers in conjunction with black partners. I have contact with people who do development projects in Africa. I have seen the country by country investigations of our major banks on their intranet.

"Probably the black kids growing up now in South Africa with access to good education will be the our first westernised population with western values. They already exist in significant numbers. Walk around a mall or sit in a restuarant and you'll see a bunch of educated black kids who speak to each other in english south africac accents".

Probably, maybe, could be - all possibilities but not actualities. I only deal with actualities.

The actuality is that that still has to prove itself. So far there is a disappointing nett outcome. It is a drain on our countries resources. South Africa is moving into the direction of a failed state. See the marks given by the DA and FF+ to the ANC (40%).

Speaking English is not a Western value. It is language ability. what you are able to do with the language is a high culture ability (poetry, literature, etc.).

Back to the genetic part. If whites procreate, you get a white offspring. If blacks procreate, you get a black offspring. If Chinese procreate, you get a Chinese offspring. Despite your genetic variances, the offspring stays within the species (race) and does not hop species.

"How does a neo fascist who wants to opress black people and glorifies apartheid even enter into a debate about universal ethics or "high culture" ?

Come-on - do not try to push assumptions under my shoe by throwing around emotional antifascist newspeak. Where did I oppress people? Where did I glorify apartheid? I just state the facts. Your leftist undercoat is showing through.

"And what are the universal ethics ? The golden rules?"

Huh - What are you mumbling about?

The Rooster said...

The actuality is that that still has to prove itself. So far there is a disappointing nett outcome. It is a drain on our countries resources. South Africa is moving into the direction of a failed state. See the marks given by the DA and FF+ to the ANC (40%).


_________________-


Oh the opposition parties criticise the ruling party and that's a failed state ? Shut the fuck up.

Come back to me demonstrating how we are failed in any of these aspects.

1)economy
2) increasing the delivery of basic services like electricity and water
3) Increasing access to health care and education
4) growing the middle class and average income (by close to 200% inflation related)
5) Lowering violent crime

etc etc

Clue : You can't. But oh ! The khaki pants two tone wearing farmers of the 0.2% elected FF+ we're a failed state so it must be so !

lol.

The Rooster said...

Back to the genetic part. If whites procreate, you get a white offspring. If blacks procreate, you get a black offspring. If Chinese procreate, you get a Chinese offspring. Despite your genetic variances, the offspring stays within the species (race) and does not hop species.

__________________-

Ok after rading that I'm ashamed I spend this much wasting my time discussing genetics with you. You don't even understand what a phenotype is !

And "races" (ethnic groups by the scientific understanding) are not different species you dipshit !


Fuck you're a moron. How dare you even debate something you clearly don't have the tiniest knowledge on ?

The Rooster said...

Come-on - do not try to push assumptions under my shoe by throwing around emotional antifascist newspeak. Where did I oppress people? Where did I glorify apartheid? I just state the facts. Your leftist undercoat is showing through.

______________________-

If the shoe fits so to speak. And don't play coyt. You did exactly what I am accusing you of.

The Rooster said...

"And what are the universal ethics ? The golden rules?"
________________-
Huh - What are you mumbling about?

_____________--

Oh what a shock ! I'm terribly surprised ! Another thing you don't have a clue about !

/sarcasm

All widely practiced religions and cultures express a sentiment worded simliar to what the Christians called "the golden rule" (or the silver rule stated slightly differently but essentially the same concept) that the main guided l;aw to life is to treat others as you would like them to treat you (and don't treat them as you would not like them to treat you).


It's basically the process that some believes seperates us from most of the animal kingdom put into words : Self reflection and an understanding of personal responsibility and causation.

pincer said...

Apropos the few farm murders of Adriana Stuijt - have you read this book?

http://www.treurgrond.co.za/

"Come back to me demonstrating how we are failed in any of these aspects".

Redistributrion of wealth.

"And "races" (ethnic groups by the scientific understanding) are not different species you dipshit!"

Huh? English is not my home language. Some stuff I look up on the google translator so some terms may come across wrongly.

"It's basically the process that some believes seperates us from most of the animal kingdom put into words"

Exactly. That sense is not equally developed in all of mankind.

"Ok after rading that I'm ashamed I spend this much wasting my time discussing genetics with you. You don't even understand what a phenotype is!"

Nevertheless - it still remains that whites produce white offsprings.

The Rooster said...

Redistributrion of wealth.

____________-

Wait...what ?????

You want MORE dedistribution of wealth ? Any more and we WOULD be commnunist. Remember what this debate started about ? You're well beyind becomming a joke at this point.

The Rooster said...

"It's basically the process that some believes seperates us from most of the animal kingdom put into words"

Exactly. That sense is not equally developed in all of mankind.


______________________

Because of culture and environment not genetics. You will find that sense not very developed in a lot of white people and very developed in a lot of black people and vica versa. There is a strong correlation between this, poverty and lack of education.


Also in the grand scheme of things we are a very young species (+-150 000 years)...I'm assuming you're a man "well into his years" by the ignorant type of shit you seem to believe, so you might appriate that is not a long time (even if we never interbred)to create significant genetic determinations. Phenotypically there were many changes mostly due to climate and diet(darker skins adapted better to the warmer regions etc and vica versa). This is just melanin content in the skin by the way.



_____________________
"Ok after rading that I'm ashamed I spend this much wasting my time discussing genetics with you. You don't even understand what a phenotype is!"

Nevertheless - it still remains
that whites produce white offsprings.

___________________

It clearly still remains that you don't have a fucking clue what the difference between phentypical difference and genetics differences are.


Fancy that : Being a social Darwinist and not even understand Darwin.

Quite now buddy. You're only making it worse for yourself.


When will people learn not to argue with me ? It only ever ends in their humuliation and exposing of their ignorance.

The Rooster said...

*quiet

The Rooster said...

Warning : Unless your next responses shows you have at least made some effort to understand genetics and the biological lack of evidence for "race" as a valid concept don't be shocked if they don't apprear on this site.

Don't get me wrong your ignorance is amusing to those of us who are educated in this field and does my cause a great deal of good. But out of respect before you argue at least have the tiniest clue about what you are talking about. At least I understand "social darwinism" (which is what you believe in whether you know it or not). Do me the courtesy of reading up basic evolutionary theory and modern human genetic diversity studies. Because social darwinism has been dead(falsified) as a theory for over 100 years.

Dachshund said...

Hey Rooster, I'm not surprised you'd prefer to date out of your own ethnicity: if you google Angus Buchan Kurt Darren Steve Hofmeyr you come up with quite a few profiles of fans of all three on dating sites, and a lot of these chicks are based in PE!

So the right wing thinks you do the coloureds no favour by creating more of them. Reminds me of when I was seven years old and a cop came to our house to tell my mother I was not allowed to play with the coloured child next door to us. Diane, her name was. Her parents had taken me along on holiday to Langebaan for a weekend, and that was the limit for at least one of our neighbours.

Shortly after that, these coloured neighbours were taken out of their house in the white suburb of Claremont and placed elsewhere, but nobody told us where, and we were not allowed to talk about it. I never saw Diane again. She was the same age as me.

The children and grandchildren of the policeman who came to my mother to tell her what was right and proper are probably living around PE and listening to Kurt Darren today, oblivious to the devastation that was wreaked on hundreds of thousands of Cape coloureds under forced removals during the fifties and sixties. They say interbreeding doesn't work, look at all the goffals doing crime from the Cape Flats, they even come out and murder whites. And this surprises them, that anyone could hate whites so much.

The Rooster said...

Firstly I never said anything about who I date and that's the point. It's no one's business. Because of preference and location I have mostly dated Asian woman and had good experiences with them while I have had a few bad experiences with western women (European and South African to be specific).


_____________________

Shortly after that, these coloured neighbours were taken out of their house in the white suburb of Claremont and placed elsewhere, but nobody told us where, and we were not allowed to talk about it. I never saw Diane again. She was the same age as me.


___________________

No Dacht ! What are you doing ? Get your head back in the sand ! No wrong was done during Apartheid ! The streets were paved with gold ! The blacks abnd colourds thought they had died and gone to disney land !

(*rolls eyes)

The Rooster said...

eI recently spnt some time in a project where I had to deal with a lot of whites from the poorer coloured parts of P.E.

I can guarantee you there is sweet fuck all difference in their level of dysfunctional poor behaviour in general to their coloured neighbours. Drug abuse, violence, spousal abuse, alcoholism, prostitution etc are rife ammongst the whites of the "lower classes".

In fact world wide you will find the same phenomenon. While ammongst educated and wealthy blacks you will find a very low level of social dysfunction.

Isn't it all so very obvious and increasingly so every single dayt that it's all about environment and culture rather than race ?

Dachshund said...

I was there, I experienced what happened first hand. I was so angry at what happened to Diane and her family I refused to go back to the government school where they were ramming government studies down my seven year old throat. The schoolmaster was a Dutch plank from Holland and he wanted to know what I found wrong with his school. I just shut up, they could have arrested my parents. Then they decided to lose my school report "in the post". That was when my mother really got the hell in with them and got the report out of them. The next year we spent in Holland and when we got back I went to a convent school. It made life more bearable for me, but not for children outside the convent school walls. I never joined the Black Sash or anything like that, because that was so Jewish, you know.

You look behind in hindsight, and you think, holy shit, I lived through that fascism.

pincer said...

"It clearly still remains that you don't have a fucking clue what the difference between phentypical difference and genetics differences are".

Diddle-daddle. Is that rocket science - I think not. Starting off with Mendel - is it rocket science? Are you a biologist by any chance to speak authoritative on such matters? You try to write genetics out of the matter by pushing a political agenda, methinks.

Social Darwinism - I do see in real life that there is a biological determinant that drives history and cultures. If you exclude genetics, you analog exclude the wiring of a computer. You in effect say that the programs in the brain run on vacuum and that runs counter to all surgical evidence. How do you think many major psychological discoveries were made? By patients with brain damage through wars and other accidents. Then you could discover behavior modifications of such a nature which was not environmental but direct damage to the neurons. Biological component. You can not rule that out. But I think you know that already and are pushing a political agenda.

"You want MORE dedistribution of wealth ? Any more and we WOULD be commnunist".

Eh old chap. There is more than one way to redistribute wealth and historically not necessarily by means of communism. The catholic church was the communism of the middle ages. But yes, we have a strong communist element in our government.

"You will find that sense not very developed in a lot of white people and very developed in a lot of black people and vica versa."

Duuh. I already mention there is a lot of overlap, but I write about an entire population. Statistics. Level of civilization. High culture. A sample is not the statistical universum.

"You're well beyind becomming a joke at this point."

Trodding on some chicken feet by getting personal, eh?

"Phenotypically there were many changes mostly due to climate and diet(darker skins adapted better to the warmer regions etc and vica versa). "

That (climate and melanin) has been disproven. I leave the homework for you.

"Also in the grand scheme of things we are a very young species (+-150 000 years)".

Ah. You might as well argue that is the reason we are still very much present as the original races. But for the final age of mankind ... not yet conclusive on the available evidence. The more you go into the past the vaguer it becomes and the science of the spade is yet still uncovering evidence. Certainly not the age of the earth, since it had to do some cooling down.

The Rooster said...

Diddle-daddle. Is that rocket science - I think not. Starting off with Mendel - is it rocket science? Are you a biologist by any chance to speak authoritative on such matters? You try to write genetics out of the matter by pushing a political agenda, methinks.


_____________________

No, I'm writing genetics out of it. Our genes do define many things about us. If science showed that the different races shared the same genes significantly different from other races then that would mean indeed there is something to biology being a good indication and prediction of what behaviour to expect from a "race".


The problem is THEY FUCKING DON'T! Can we stop going in circles about this ? "Race" is invalid as a biological concept !

The Rooster said...

Social Darwinism - I do see in real life that there is a biological determinant that drives history and cultures. If you exclude genetics, you analog exclude the wiring of a computer. You in effect say that the programs in the brain run on vacuum and that runs counter to all surgical evidence. How do you think many major psychological discoveries were made? By patients with brain damage through wars and other accidents. Then you could discover behavior modifications of such a nature which was not environmental but direct damage to the neurons. Biological component. You can not rule that out. But I think you know that already and are pushing a political agenda.



____________________

No, no, no !!!

You're anology is useful but let's expand upon it.


If humans genetics were the hardware the variance between "races" would be as diverse as the varience between them. So we'd have some good hardware and some shitty hardware...Mac's, some Pc's, Some Dell's etc and all of them crossing over all the "races".

Secondly what would be the most important aspect of how that hardware ran and what the computer could do ?

The software (social and environmental circumstances).

And thirdly (but most importantly) the data that is input and uploaded (culture, education etc).

Of course if you change an individuals brain chemistry etc you will have an effect on the output of the individual. So we go back in circles to the original flaw in your premise : That "Races" share the same hardware. They don't. That is the scientific consensus of the gross majority of biologists, anthropologists and other scientists.

In fact the word "race" in the biological sense probably hasn't been included a single thesis, text book, medical study etc that passed peer review for around 10 years. Scientists speak about "ethnic" groups. Not because there's some liberal agenda to fart rainbows and bunnies over everything, but that's because the hard science shows "race" (once again) as a biological concept does NOT EXIST.

pincer said...

"The children and grandchildren of the policeman who came to my mother to tell her what was right and proper are probably living around PE and listening to Kurt Darren today, oblivious to the devastation that was wreaked on hundreds of thousands of Cape coloureds under forced removals during the fifties and sixties".

Ah, now I understand where you come from.

Hundreds of thousands - How many exactly? Hundreds? Thousands? For your claimed high IQ you appear to be quite passionate (I will refrain from saying thick, because many intelligent people are political dolts) about this. Rather tell about the reasons this displacement took place and what compensations was given to them. And explain a bit about the large scale displacement of whites in the Cape Flats when Apartheid had been slowly dismantled.

"Drug abuse, violence, spousal abuse, alcoholism, prostitution etc are rife ammongst the whites of the "lower classes".

That was nearly unheard off in the 1970's when they had jobs. When they had jobs, they did not strike and break down society. They fitted into society. The black lower classes strike and break and destroy.

But during the 1950's when you had the poor white problem, you had the same problems. where did the poor white problem come from? Today it is the ANC, back then it was British imperialism. When society stabilized in 1948 when the Afrikaner could take its own destiny in its hands again, those social problems diminished to that statistical proportion which always would act in that manner.

Give those squatters a hope for the future and they will return to a more civilized condition.

On top of all - not all squatters fit that description. Legislated unemployment is hitting deeper and deeper into the ranks of the whites of all educational levels. You choose your example in order to drag whites through the mud.

Today I could even argue that amongst educated whites there is a break down of the social and moral structure due to the action of the ANC. The whites are forced into unnatural circumstances by the ANC policies.

pincer said...

"Reminds me of when I was seven years old and a cop came to our house to tell my mother I was not allowed to play with the coloured child next door to us".

Now why do you think those laws were in place? Just for the joke of it? Because back then the authorities saw the bigger picture of what full scale racial integration could do, the exact consequences we sit with today everywhere in the world where the race is being ignored - more crime, more corruption, and trying to relegate us whites into a minor role in history by creating a guilt complex.

It is very selfish to do what you as an individual wants to do without considering the larger impact on society. Why do have to have laws in place to that effect?

Because you have to keep the idiots in check who do not care about the larger society but just want to satisfy their own immediate needs, regardless of the greater harm to society.

"Isn't it all so very obvious and increasingly so every single dayt that it's all about environment and culture rather than race?"

No, no, and once again no. It is obvious for persons with insufficient discrimination abilities - the IQ is not there, thus they are not able to look beyond the surface.

"I was so angry at what happened to Diane and her family I refused to go back to the government school where they were ramming government studies down my seven year old throat".

Alright. What were they ramming down your throat? You must now be very careful about this, for I went through the same system than you. Please provide some examples of what was rammed down your throat. Nothing was rammed through my throat.

In those days, before the OBE education system, you had recognizable subjects - like geography, maths, physical science, biology, history, geography, accountancy, and a choice of languages. So what was rammed down your throat with what subjects?

Already by describing your Afrikaans teacher as a 'plank' you are exposing your hatred to the world and I expect little objectivity from you.

"You look behind in hindsight, and you think, holy shit, I lived through that fascism."

Ah. You have no clue what fascism was if you call the Apartheid system (based on christian-nationalism) a fascist system. You just babble any hate word that comes to your mind because you cannot come to terms with it, methinks.

The Rooster said...

That was nearly unheard off in the 1970's when they had jobs. When they had jobs, they did not strike and break down society. They fitted into society. The black lower classes strike and break and destroy.


------------------------------

Oh so you acknowledge that without priveledge or economic means a lot of whites behave dysfunctionally. So you admit that socio economic factors are a major indication of how someone will behave ? You're seeing the light ?
____________________

But during the 1950's when you had the poor white problem, you had the same problems. where did the poor white problem come from? Today it is the ANC, back then it was British imperialism. When society stabilized in 1948 when the Afrikaner could take its own destiny in its hands again, those social problems diminished to that statistical proportion which always would act in that manner.
______________________________

Oh so when a group doesn't have political power and control over their destiny they can't prosper ? Great, so you see how that was the case for blacks pre 1994 ? Glad we agree.

___________________

Give those squatters a hope for the future and they will return to a more civilized condition.

______________________

Yup. As shown with the 6 million plus blacks who are now middle classed and educated.

And the poor whites...the types I'm talking about ? Put them in any western country and the best they'd manage with their education, lack of intellect etc would be a street sweeper. So what's the A.N.C got to do with it ? You're not owed a job because of your skin colour. You sound like the ANCYL.

The Rooster said...

Now why do you think those laws were in place? Just for the joke of it? Because back then the authorities saw the bigger picture of what full scale racial integration could do, the exact consequences we sit with today everywhere in the world where the race is being ignored - more crime, more corruption, and trying to relegate us whites into a minor role in history by creating a guilt complex.

It is very selfish to do what you as an individual wants to do without considering the larger impact on society. Why do have to have laws in place to that effect?



______________________

Oh shut the fuck up. Your right so you can live like kings being 10% of the population while keeping the other 90% down can never be twisted into something but ethically and morally repugnant.

The Rooster said...

No, no, and once again no. It is obvious for persons with insufficient discrimination abilities - the IQ is not there, thus they are not able to look beyond the surface.

________________________

Facepalm. The irony.

The Rooster said...

Ah. You have no clue what fascism was if you call the Apartheid system (based on christian-nationalism) a fascist system. You just babble any hate word that comes to your mind because you cannot come to terms with it, methinks.

_________________

It was fascist you fucking apologist. No re writing of history here on the net can change that. I don't burn a candle for the A.N.C but the type of white who can't look back at apartheid and see what a stupid fucking bullshit system it was and all the crap it caused is a piece of fucking work.

Go on then. You describe Aparthied. Actually don't bother. I heard the same propaganda too growing up. It was about seperate development yadda yadda yadda.......shut the fuck up.


(Cue : Vervoedesque histrionic disengenous rant about how it is so innocent and mutually beneficial for people to live apart.. (except expect the part about we keep the wealth, most of the country, the power, the militiary force, put up puppet dictaters, make the rules, and do what the fuck we want....that part...expect it left out.)

pincer said...

Why do I actually waste time to explain all this? Because I have some time to pass and am bored and need some stimulation, and because I like the truth.

Scientists speak about "ethnic" groups.

But that is not correct.

'In fact the word "race" in the biological sense probably hasn't been included a single thesis, text book, medical study etc that passed peer review for around 10 years'.

That also is untrue. It is however true in the sense that the people who take that angle have difficulties getting peer reviews for that angle is a tabu subject. It is too political loaded.

"That "Races" share the same hardware".

Perhaps the problem is one of definition what constitutes 'race'. Without neatly defining that we will talk around in circles.

Yes, some features are shared, others not (overlap, Venn diagram). There is amongst humans no race in terms of absolutes that fit into a drawer. Absolutes like white shave arms and legs, and other races have other sort of external projections (in the sense of an alien off-planet civilization as found in science fiction).

If you strictly apply your definition, you could convincingly argue that The Great Jellyfish Blobs from Alpha Centauri who have developed space travel beyond technological means (bodyless travel in hyperspace) are no distinct race to us humans because they share genes. Whith what genetic difference does a race actually become a race? 99%? 50%? 0%

In fact, you could argue that all of the living entities in our universe and possible multiverse are no distinct races because they all consist out of different combinations of submicroscopic building blocks like atoms, quarks, muons and whatever fancy words and new discoveries.

But we know for classification purposes there are races and that is not the same than ethnicity, so whats your point?

We talk about a "propensity off". Some things are shared (arms, head, feet) and some things not (offsprings remain in their race).

I will not yet go into animal husbandry and plant breeding, but there you see the same patterns.

pincer said...

"Great, so you see how that was the case for blacks pre 1994 ? Glad we agree".

Not so. They had their homelands. They had white upliftment support. Give the same support to the poor whites and you will see a thing or two. Self-determination.

"Yup. As shown with the 6 million plus blacks who are now middle classed and educated" and Apartheid contributed to that artificial umbilical chord. The litmus test is if that is sustainable without western intervention - despite your 'six million educated blacks' we are sliding back into a typical failed African state.

"Your right so you can live like kings being 10% of the population while keeping the other 90% down can never be twisted into something but ethically and morally repugnant".

Please repeat to yourself every night before prayer time: "Nobody was kept down". You are lying.

":except expect the part about we keep the wealth, most of the country, the power, the militiary force, put up puppet dictaters, make the rules, and do what the fuck we want....that part...expect it left out".

The one who produces the wealth, keeps the wealth and decides over the wealth. That is capitalism. It also is meritocracy. You believe the producers of the wealth must have no say over the spending of this wealth?

Communists see everything as 'puppets, dictators, keep the wealth, industrialists, etc.". You are dangerously starting to sound like a hardline communist.

"It was fascist you fucking apologist".

Ah. I understand. Your undercoat. Like the Greens - when they turn ripe they turn red.

"Puppet dictators".

Who? The Bantustans? Why? You babble out of the book of the anti-apartheid activist and that is propaganda without a foundation.

"It was about seperate development yadda yadda yadda.......shut the fuck up".

Must be true what the clever people say - liberals preach liberty but when they come into power it is everything but liberty but turn into communists. They demand freedom of speech, but once in power they tell you to "shut the fuck up" (their biggest enemy is exposure).

Dachshund said...

I said quite clearly that the headmaster involved was a Dutchman in the straight sense, not an Afrikaner. I also said, equally clearly, that the subject of government studies was forced onto me. Indoctrinate them at an early stage, that's the fascist way. You don't think that politicians can't cloak themselves in Christianity? Adolph Hitler did exactly that when he exhorted the Germans to adhere to protestant Christianity. He said the National Socialist Party was a Christian party for aryan Germans.

Pincer, why don't you stick to beating up your wife instead of talking shit here? Or are you one of those Afrikaners who sticks his nose over the fence to see whether his neighbour is klapping his wife hard enough when the neighbour isn't fucking the maid?

The Rooster said...

Perhaps the problem is one of definition what constitutes 'race'. Without neatly defining that we will talk around in circles.

Yes, some features are shared, others not (overlap, Venn diagram).

___________________________

On that note...


No visible boundary

I would suggest that there are very few who, of their own experience, have actually perceived at first hand the nature of human variation. What we know of the characteristics of the various regions of the world we have largely gained vicariously and in misleadingly spotty fashion. Pictures and the television camera tell us that the people of Oslo in Norway, Cairo in Egypt, and Nairobi in Kenya look very different. And when we actually meet natives of those separate places, which can indeed happen, we can see representations of those differences at first hand.

But if one were to walk up beside the Nile from Cairo, across the Tropic of Cancer to Khartoum in the Sudan and on to Nairobi, there would be no visible boundary between one people and another. The same thing would be true if one were to walk north from Cairo, through the Caucasus, and on up into Russia, eventually swinging west across the northern end of the Baltic Sea to Scandinavia. The people at any adjacent stops along the way look like one another more than they look like anyone else since, after all, they are related to one another. As a rule, the boy marries the girl next door throughout the whole world, but next door goes on without stop from one region to another.

Dachshund said...

It's propensity to, not propensity of or off. Stupid arsehole.

The Rooster said...

But let's open the phenotype can of worms...what does it mean to be white ?

firstly the problem starts with the whites just in western europe...portuguese , italians, spanish, english, germans, scandanavians etc all have are described as "whites" but they share vast genetic variations, cultural differences etc. What about Israeli's. Are they whites are Arabic/asian ? What about white south Africans who are very watered down with local blood ?

Then it comes to blacks. Kenyans seem to have some genetic make up that allows them to run long distances....and Jamaicans seem to have it to sprint. But you don't find many Jamaican long distance runners or Kenyan sprinters.

Central black Africans are tall, Southern black Africans are far shorter.

Nothern asians are very light skinned while tropical asians are much darker skinned. But travel from china, through loas, into thailand down to malaysia then into indonesia and at no point would you be able to say "this is the point where north asian and souther asians seperate!"

I could go on ..but the point should be clear...there is no point where one race ends and the other begins. Certainly not genetically. The variance within races is as vast as it is between races. You can have two "whites" who are genetically less related to each other than an african or asian person. This is how silly it all gets when we judge by phenotype. In fact a coloured south african is far more likely to be genetically related to a white south african than a coloured american. I mean this is simple stuff people.

I mean if we were going to name every subset of groups we would have millions and increasing !

So what we have is ethnic groups and they are not defined by "race" but rather by geography. language and culture.

The Rooster said...

Whith what genetic difference does a race actually become a race? 99%? 50%? 0%

_____________

Ex-fucking-actly !

It doesn't ! A species yes, but not a race. There is no significant genetic variation between the human races so that it's valid to call anyone part of a "race" with xyz genetic make up.

In fact there is twice as much genetic difference between a white women and a white man than there is between a white man and a black man. So before you even think of becoming a racist on genetic grounds you had better become a sexist first.

The Rooster said...

The one who produces the wealth, keeps the wealth and decides over the wealth. That is capitalism. It also is meritocracy. You believe the producers of the wealth must have no say over the spending of this wealth?

______________

And when the wealth is produced on the back of an unfair system that actively stops 90% of the population of taking a significant part in the economy while abusing their labour ?

I must have imagined those black miners going km's down shafts to fetch our gold for near slave wages while being allocated dismal all male hostels to live in with curfews and pass laws.

The Rooster said...

Must be true what the clever people say - liberals preach liberty but when they come into power it is everything but liberty but turn into communists. They demand freedom of speech, but once in power they tell you to "shut the fuck up" (their biggest enemy is exposure).

________________________

Sorry but who are you talking to ? I thought you were talking to me but now you're going on about liberals.

The day when you consider someone who has a viewpoint no more controversial as" fucking people over badly is not a good and admirable thing and we should try not to do it or glorify it" as a "liberal" is the day you ought to stop and think "Holy shit..have I really become that fucking extreme ?"


post note : Your defending of apartheid while lecturing about freedom of speech at the same time is so ironic and hypocritical it makes me nauseous.

pincer said...

"There is no significant genetic variation between the human races so that it's valid to call anyone part of a "race" with xyz genetic make up."

Ok, according to that we all are Chimpanzees. Right? And the writings re race from Amren and others are wrong. Right?

http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2009/10/race_is_a_myth.php

Dachshund said...

Rooster, could you please set your blog time to SA time? It's quite easy to do.

Dachshund said...

Pincer, are you of direct German descent? No nazi accusations or insinuations, just a straight question, were your parents German?

The Rooster said...

"There is no significant genetic variation between the human races so that it's valid to call anyone part of a "race" with xyz genetic make up."

Ok, according to that we all are Chimpanzees. Right? And the writings re race from Amren and others are wrong. Right?


--------------------


What the fuck are you on about ? The last I read Chimpanzees have 97% the same genes as us. Humans of all races for example have 99.99% the same genes. Women and men have 99.98% the same genes. It's all right there in the article you linked to.

Written by the way as an opinion piece by someone using the psudonymn (a blogger) who promote no credentials called Michael Rienzi. It's a whole lot of backpedaling, if and but and clutching at straws to suggest the 0.01% genetic differences between all human "races" could have some kind of inflouence. Go read for yourselves and make up your own minds.


He also admits in the article there is more variance within races than between them. His monkeys and irishmen anaology is absurdly bad logic and a misunderstanding of what that statement means.

pincer said...

I have some spare time again.

"Written by the way as an opinion piece by someone using the psudonymn (a blogger) who promote no credentials called Michael Rienzi".

Why, do you have any credentials? Amren is just one e-mail away.

"That's an idea that went out of scientific vogue almost over 100 years ago called "social darwinism". It is flat out wrong".

Right. Before we start there let us establish some basis from where we can kick off. Do I understand you correctly that your main pillar that there are no races rests on the findings of the genome project? DNA research? Thus not necessarily before the genome project?

The Rooster said...

Do I understand you correctly that your main pillar that there are no races rests on the findings of the genome project? DNA research? Thus not necessarily before the genome project?


__________________________

Tell you what. Why don't you tell me the counter science and let us look at the credibility of the sources. I will probably already know about it anyway and quickly be able to snap back at you what's bullshit about it. I'm not a selective reader. I look into both sides of the issue.

For example I am outspoken about hiv=aids=best treatment is arv's (without context.) I do not buy into much of the global warming/green movement. I am outspoken about women generally having inferior intelligence to men etc. I'm just stating that to show that I don't formulate beliefs to be politically correct and blindly follow consensus.

But in the face of hard , objective, falsifiable data the best possible conclusion we can come to right now is that "race", in the biological sense, does not exist.

This is not some arbitrary decision someone has made to be politically correct and science has towed the line as your extremist paranoid "liberal conspiracy" tendencies will suggest.

The Rooster said...

I know the sites you hang around Pincer and how you lot have your little circle jerk going on about a world wide conspiracy against the white man by the NWO/zionists/bilderburg groups etc. I'm savvy to all that.

pincer said...

"Warning : Unless your next responses shows you have at least made some effort to understand genetics and the biological lack of evidence for "race" as a valid concept don't be shocked if they don't apprear on this site".

I am but an average person. No rocket scientist in genetics. But I took the trouble in reading a bit up on this (and some older books about the basics of inheritance, Mendel, DNA, genes, etc. and where it began, for the layman. Forgot the title of the book) so that I can at least have an intelligent understanding when listening to the experts:

http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/project/info.shtml

Dachshund said...

"I am outspoken about women generally having inferior intelligence to men etc."

Really? Please do expand on the etc.

Dachshund said...

" ...you lot have your little circle jerk going on about a world wide conspiracy against the white man by the NWO/zionists/bilderburg groups etc."

Lol! You know that guy who's been harassing me, who I said I wouldn't name here anymore, this jerk says he is spending Christmas in Switzerland yadda yadda yadda and he's so well off in the UK huffa huffa huffa well the little fatso still phones me from his mousehole in Euxton every other middle of the night. The little fatso earns stuff all in the UK, he lives off the wifey. You may have a point, Rooster, about women generally acting dumber than men. But I think it has more to do with society ostracising women if they live without men, and that pressure very often comes from other women. Who the hell would want to hang out with a loser?

The Rooster said...

"I am outspoken about women generally having inferior intelligence to men etc."

Really? Please do expand on the
______________

We invented everything of any significance. We made any advances of any significance in the arts, technology, medicine, science etc

We're 4 times more likely to be Geniuses that woman.

I know women will say that this is because of historical oppression and all sorts of excuses but that's nonsense. Until very recent times very few men weren't opressed and had the luxury to study etc yet throughout history men's creativity and perseverance drag us out of the stone ages to the point you can be sure that just about every brick, pipe, cable, theory, device etc etc around you in this modern world was invented, put there, repaired, improved upon etc by a man.

Dachshund said...

Well yes Rooster, a few men are more likely than women to be geniuses, but then a few more men than women are likely to be drooling idiots or raving sociopaths. Having said that, I'm very happy with my new Defy gourmet multifunction oven that I had installed today. It keeps my husband happy - ditto the Miele dishwasher and the Range Rover Evoque in my garage, all paid for in cash. By me.

Great are man's inventions! I'm a convinced consumer!

Actually, I generally like men ... I can tell a real man when I see one. I just don't like men who neg women. So tell me, what red blooded male could possibly dislike a woman who drives a Range Rover Evoque?

The Rooster said...

Well yes Rooster, a few men are more likely than women to be geniuses, but then a few more men than women are likely to be drooling idiots or raving sociopaths.

__________________

That's is indeed true about intelligence but not being sociopaths. Men are more prominent indeed on both ends of the intellectual spectrum. But then boys will be boys and the femi-nazi hyper liberal schooling system fails boys drastically.

Regarding being sociopaths women take the cake by a long shot. The entire vapid, devoid of self reflection fashion industry etc is testiment to this.

Women are also more likely to abuse their spouses or abuse children. Stats are all out there if you would like to read them.

The Rooster said...

But please don't think I'm out to "neg" women. My comments are reactionary to a war against males and their rights going on in the media and society. I am not prodding for the sake of it, I am just prodding back.

Lurker said...

"Whith what genetic difference does a race actually become a race? 99%? 50%? 0%

_____________

Ex-fucking-actly !

It doesn't ! A species yes, but not a race. There is no significant genetic variation between the human races so that it's valid to call anyone part of a "race" with xyz genetic make up."


As a "lurker" in the background I've read this interchange with some interest over the last few days, the author’s comments above and the general thrust of it, is misleading...There is in fact no such thing as a speciation “event” The difference between species does not occur at any point at all and cannot be measured on small scales whatsoever.(leave aside the fact that at the gene level variations (strictly mutations) are true, discrete and measurable events in the single lifetime of individuals, some naturally selected, most not)

Speciation is “spread” out over time so that eventually, over colossal periods, noticeable differences are observed . So this makes it difficult to pin point when one species, variation or race differs from another…

…So then, are there no measurable differences? Of course there are! The larger the scale in time, the greater the difference …The shorter the scale, the less marked. In the case of the human race, if we accept the out of Africa theory as correct, which any sane biologist does, on the colossal time scale there is but one human species….

TBC

Lurker said...

But on shorter scales there are many human races…If we accept that a branch of humanity budded off from Africa circa 100,000 years ago and trekked North, natural selection began to work on this separation of the species, leading to the less marked but clearly measurable variations we see today…When a black looks at a white, they are not seeing a reflection of immediate shared humanity in recent history, but are staring obliquely at a mirror reflecting back into time, one hundred thousand years ago! WOW, amazing stuff evolutionary theory….

So what does that mean? One hundred thousand years between races? On the colossal scale, it is correct (and politically more astute) to say, well, none really actually…However, on smaller scales, the differences can be huge. Races are the budding points of variation and on the HUMAN scale (lifetime less than 100 years) probably massive…We need to delve into issues of altruism, game theory and kinship here, but suffice it for me to put it facetiously: I have many cousins I would probably be prepared to lend R100 to, and 2nd cousins whom I don’t even know the name of and would hesitate to…Yet for my brother or sister, I happily give money out of love even with only a remote chance of recouping my “gift” back later…

How much less a “cousin” divided in time by one Hundred Thousand years!

Lurker said...

(Final)

In this view it works both ways, the dusky cousin left to languish in warm climes has every right to retort in exactly the same terms…There is no intrinsic value difference, it is relative….Whether you regard a tomahawk missile as inferior to an assegai, or a computer chip better than a bongo drum is up to you to choose, depending which side of the mirror you are on…Remember, I’m not talking colossal time scales here, that is irrelevant, what counts is the Here and Now of human scale, no more than perhaps a few generations hence…Selfish genes in operation, which is the way things work in nature….

To highlight my point here, I’ll leave you with a quote from Dawkins Book “The Ancestors Tale” (soft back ISBN 0 75381 996 1 – Page 33) Dawkins is relating the farmer’s tale in context of the agricultural revolution circa 10,000 BCE describing that “it was probably more difficult to work out that it might be a good idea to keep back the best seed for planting, rather than follow the obvious course of eating the best and planting the dross”….. and he then recounts an anecdote about his father….” who as a young man, fresh out of college, taught agriculture to peasant farmers in central Africa in the 1940’s, and he tells me this is one of the hardest lessons to get across” : )

So keep your scale in focus, nobody really gives a tosh about the colossal scale of evolution except in abstract, academic terms…What counts is the human scale, as it impacts on our choices and the quality of our lives here and now…

The Rooster said...

All very interesting, well written but full of inneuendo that is almost entirely bullshit.

Around us in South Africa we see every day examples of black people who are more western than many of the local white people.

100 000 years is a tiny amount of time for significant genetic variance to take place in a species that lives as relatively long as us and breeds so seldomly. A genetic variation (mutation) occurs roughly in 1 in a million reproductions. Even then whether or not that genetic mutation will be desirable or useful is not in itself likely. Yes due to environmental stuations it could be entire population groups died out who did not adjust well to climate changes etc. Those with lighter skin probably did not do well (or appear sexually selective/ healthy) in the warmer parts of the world and were seperated /bred out in some parts etc but all that has changed here is a gene that controls melanin levels.

Also the harsher climates of Europe would have forced people to adjust and develop where in other parts of the world with more suitable climates it didn't require much creativity to survive. If the population groups swopped environments there's nothing to suggest the secluded from the world by the saharan desert whites of sub saharan africa wouldn't be the more "primitive" race. Not genetically anyway. As we said the entire human race shares 99.99% of the same genes although we look phenotypically quite a lot different. Nothing on the scale as a species like dogs though and very few behaviourists disagree that pretty much any breed of dog's behaviour relates to it's environment not genetics (althougn far more varied than ours...despite the myths or anthromoophic perceptions a doberman brought up in a nurturing stress free environment could be as tame as a mouse while a badly raised poodle could be the most ill tempered little snapper).

And that's exactly what we'd expect from only 100 000 years of seperation: Not much difference. And every single day again we see how increasingly black people with education and western values confirm this. then we only need to watch "swamp people" or go parts in this country to see how ass backwards and savage some whites can be.

Genes schmenes. Stop clutching at straws and perpetuating this mythology. Do you ever think how dumb and backwards you will appear be making these arguments to your grand children who grew up in mixed race schools and saw (as I did in private school) the absurdity of it all?

The Rooster said...

Oh dear Pincer. Spot the odd one out.

1) There's an giant ape like creature living in the woods in northern america with big feet.


2) There's a long necked dinosaur type creature living in a loch in Ireland.

3) 5 apples are more apples than 3 apples.

4)All biologists and anthropologists are being forced by some huge conspiracy to deny the concept of race.


That's right folks...the answer is 3. Why ? All of them are believed by some people to be true....but.... because 3 unlike the others is not some kooky baseless, paranoid , imaginative myth it's the odd one out.

The Rooster said...

I'm curious to know to what Agenda scientists are bullsh1tting us about "race". I suggest you think it's something about weakening the white dominance and promoting socialism or something like that. Given that scientists are mostly private Enterprise high income white males that's a rather strange self defeating agenda no ? Especially for them to be doing it so on mass there's even a scientific consensus about the issue.

I could understand if this was coming from the feminist lobby. They often make shit up about promoting gender equality when they are in fact promoting violating the rights of males and fiving special rights to females.

Do you know a woman can kill your unborn child without your consent ? Try do that the other way around. Do you know what breast cancer awareness and charities receives 100 times more funding than testicular/prostate cancer despite them both being equally prevalent forms of cancer ? do you know that 99% of people who die on the job are male ? Etc etc

Also they overstate female qualities and male shortcomings and understate male achievements etc. But why would men promote this type of twaddle ?

Dachshund said...

"... do you know that 99% of people who die on the job are male?"

That's some consolation for rape victims.

The Rooster said...

Let's be very clear about this. Real rape in the traditional sense we think of a man forcing himself upon a woman is a very serious crime and their is no defending it. But is what the feminazi spew out when they manufacture their rape stats the same thing ?

Not in the slightest. The rape stats they produce in western countries and here by rachel Jewkes include in the definition of rape "having sex with a woman while she had been drinkign alcohol" (consentual...apparently she can't consent when she's had drinks) ....having sex whith a woman younger than 18 even if you are yourself etc.

If the same thing was reversed almost everh single man could also argue he has been raped. Why even when it's an older woman having sex with a younger man (underage) does society teach us it's hnot a big deal and he probably enjoyed it ? Why are women never responsible for their actions even when adults and why are men always responsible even when children ?

But no, woman are all victims and men are all perverts and criminals. What a load of fucking bollocks and crocodile tears and I don't accept it.

Let's not even bring up the taboo but very real topic of female rape fantasies. Women giving off mixed signals to urge the man to take the initiative. That would make me such an easy target for strawmabn arguments against the real rape that happens but let's not pretend that doesnt exist.


Or females crying wolf over rape for the most trivial of reasons (spite, embaressment etc) that ruins the lives of thousands of men. Oh no, I'll be the big bad wolf. Women can do no wrong.

The Rooster said...

Oh I almost forgot...Another definition of rape according to the femni-nazi's : having consentual sex with someone to appease them, or for money etc. What rubbish.

Dachshund said...

I was only joking about the 99% of men dying "on the job". Are you telling me that only 1% of men save enough to be able to eventually retire? That smacks of bad financial planning, not female chauvinism. On that note: remember to put some of your bonus into your retirement annuity. You get to save on tax as well provide for those "off the job" days. Adios to all until the New Year!

pincer said...

Another conundrum like race- where's the missing homosexual gene. Is that also a social construct?

You know what is very bitter. While you are making out a case for race being a social construct, and me that it also includes a biological base expressed by taxonomy, outside there in the real world the decision makers do not even in the slightest argue about DNA and the theoretical side of it (and most probably are not even aware of it) but act out policies according to the classical racial lines.

Apartheid was attacked because of its racial policy and today with broad based black economic empowerment and a black government in place exactly that which Apartheid was being accused of is now being applied against the whites, regardless if it was a social construct or not, and regardless of if everyone was in a position of power to enforce those laws. These people do not even consider the theoretical side and the outcomes of the human genome project, they just carry on like there is race and they have a strong opinion of black and white. they do not sit and worry whether there is race or not, they just encroach into white territory in a determined way and do not adapt to white culture but force their way
onto the whites, like a swarm of locust descending into a corn field. For them there is no color bar, only an attitude of entitlement. Not the best of mankind is being imported. There is no control over the quality of people streaming in, regardless of race. Where you see degradation occurs and nothing is being done about it. Detroit. Johannesburg. Berlin. Paris. London. You name it. If there is no race, there certainly is a difference in ability. All the shit is being offloaded in traditional white territory, and that kind of swerves the national IQ to the left of the bell shaped curve and kills of initiative by those that still can maintain civilization.

The Rooster said...

To my knowledge homosexuality is at times extremely evident from a young age. Others times not evidnent at all late into life. If anything at all their is an anti homosexual social construct. Nothing in society is actively pushing people to be homosexual and prmoting it's virtues. (Not in our society). On the other hand various cultures have done so (romans for example)and it was met with enthusiasm. The result is probably that sexuality is to some extent hard wired but not nearly as polar as people would believe. I don't want to thumb suck but I remember reading that very few people aren't bi-curious. Seeing as I'm not one of them I suppose growing up around a rigidly homophobic brother and father played a part in that. I've never been homophobic. I don't see the point in investing emotions and anger into something that doesn't affect me. I actually think there's a strong case (almost definately true) for homophobia being a projection of something you resent in yourself.


Hence the "men's men" always being happy with each others company are also almost always the types to be outspokenly homophobic. Slly things human beings.

And while we at sterotypes...policeman, priest or other "disclipined type authority figure"...good chance they are gay.

The Rooster said...

Pincer again you are glorifying whites. There's more Eurotrash and red necks and hillbillies and "common" whites than there probably are "civilised ones".

"The kardashians"/"football/soccer gossip" etc is the medium supported standern of the white psyche/intelligence. To try and associate yourself exclusively to Newton, Einstein, Gallileo, Kepler, Da Vinci is to selectively ignore Dahmer, Bundy, Manson, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin. Is to ignore golden showers and rim jobs. Is to ignore Nascar and recreational hunting and belgian colonialism that lead to genocide.


There's nothing superior about you being born white and despite what aprtheid taught you the world doesn't owe you anything. So drop your entitlement issues and get the fuck over it.

pincer said...

"Pincer again you are glorifying whites. There's more Eurotrash and red necks and hillbillies and "common" whites than there probably are "civilised ones".

That can be changed with the correct leadership. There are many examples of that in history. The white leadership pyramid has been turned on its head. Short-sighted idiots run this world.

"...to selectively ignore Dahmer, Bundy, Manson, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin...".

You have a gap in your knowledge of history, but never mind, I won't be able to change the world on a little blog like this.

Well I am signing off for a long time, big plans next year, Merry Xmas and a happy new year from the other side of the trench in a diplomatic way.

The Rooster said...

Same to you and yours Pincer. I enjoyed the debate and let's always remember it's just that.

Except I do think if we take your views to their logical conclusion what we are proposing is massive oppression of sentient beings. Something I hope even you don't stand for. But that's between you and your consciousness.

Life is short. We share the planet with all sorts of beings. I don't have the sociopathic megolamania in me and that's what is boils down to. If I exit this world without having hurt anyone I've met my responsibilities. That's athiest ethics for you.

Why I'm demonised by the far right is a mystery to me. What I propose is extremely placid. Guys, let's not fuck other people other for our own gain. Let's treat all people/animals/beings with dignity and respect. If they won't reciprocate then at least we win the war ethically.

To believe in anything less is to become a total nihilist and give up all hope for any meaning or goodness to this life. That's no way to live. Invest/care in your life and it's value and if you do surely you will have the empathy to see how others have the rights and aspirations to care about their own.

Peace and love
Rooster

The Rooster said...

Lastly the extreme right (or left but they don't really bug my blog) , and thus my issues with them boils down to this : They actively seek to oppress human freedom in favour of their own personal selfish pursuits.

Humanity has a long history of violence and war and chaos and it stems from the same basic principle : intolerance and emotionally comprimised beings. I stand for rationality and progress. Something I hope to maintain into my older years (should they come, as my enemies would point out medically I'm pretty much past my expiry date). And with that I hold dear a belief in an intrinsic potential for all humanity. To give up that belief is to become cynical beyond anything that is proactive. Reactive people add no value and has a poor understaing of basic netownian physics which are the most important laws that govern our lives.

Hate bounces.

The Rooster said...

If you're interested in my altet ego (basically a spoof/lampooning of an extremist misanthrope heaped with ascerbic humour)check out my site :

http://www.themcfearless.com

wynand said...

ek stem glad nie met die stuk saam nie , maak moorde af as niks word sommer kwaad amptelike syfers soos deur die polisie gegee is 2009 24000 + moorde 59 per 100 000 hoogste in die wereld 2010 was die term moord aangepas pm strafbare manslag uit te sluit en nog steeds 16000 moorde 45 per 100 000 sesde hoogste in wereld , transvaal landbou unie het sederd januarie 2010 besluit om nie meer plot moorde as plaas moorde te tel nie en die meeste moorde word op plotte gepleeg - die vermoordes weerspieel ook die populasie met 9% van die vermoordes wat blank is maar die verskil kom in die moordenaars wat meestal swart is miskien is 2% blankes en Julius Malema is steeds die president van die ancyl tot en met sy appel aangehoor is die stuk hierbo is nog groter disinformasie as wat Adriana deurgee

The Rooster said...

ek stem glad nie met die stuk saam nie , maak moorde af as niks word sommer kwaad amptelike syfers soos deur die polisie gegee is 2009 24000 + moorde 59 per 100 000 hoogste in die wereld 2010 was die term moord aangepas pm strafbare manslag uit te sluit en nog steeds 16000 moorde 45 per 100 000 sesde hoogste in wereld ,

__________________

Latest is 14 800 and with the increased population it is now 34 per 100 000. For whites it is much lower. For white women for example (according to medical research council who studied morgues by cause of death and race) showed it was 2.8 per 100 000 (about half the murder rate for the U.S.A).

The Rooster said...

Julius Malema is steeds die president van die ancyl tot en met sy appel aangehoor is

_______________

He has zero percent chance of over turning his appeal, a fact he resigned to by taking a new post. So no, he is no longer the president of the Youth League.


So wherever you are getting your facts that are knowing lying to you.

Dachshund said...

Moerse groot blog wat jy daar geskryf het, Wynand. Seker maar 'n helse klomp werk en navorsing.